LetLetLet ~ Warplanes

Let Let Let Utility => Forums Works => Topic started by: No.1 on February 18, 2011, 08:52:22 AM

Title: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on February 18, 2011, 08:52:22 AM
Dear friends,

idea of group build is interesting but as you know we did not have this present much in our past. The same subject is thematic and in many cases focused on particular subject, the type of airplane. In this moment we run SBD Dauntless and A-24 group build with idea to start Il-2 in March. Maybe there would be good idea to put all our ideas here and make better organization for the group build year. So...

Il-2 is proposed for March by Second Air Force. What the next? Last year I have talk and prepared material with our member Samuraj77 and in this way we have one dual combo Fokker D.VII which will be shared and used as group build and also we have prepared material for group build F4U-1c Corsair. With our member Draken35 I have talk about the group build of Dewoitine D. 501. So for now we have options:

Il-2
F4U Corsair
Fokker D.VII
Dewoitine 500-510 family

Any additional idea?

Cheers ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on February 19, 2011, 08:06:56 AM
I would suggest Fiat CR.42 - especially with these relatively new Italeri tooling in both 1/72 and 1/48 it looks really nice :-ok
Other than that, I shall gladly join Corsair and D.VII builds, just have to dig deep in the cellar to find'em :-/
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 13, 2011, 01:36:56 PM
Hello friends.
I would like to join a group build :-tri ,but as you know,i build only jet planes(at least for now). If you want we could organize a group build an modern jet fighter,like the F-16,Mirage 2000,Rafale,EF Typhoon or some else for july or august. The reason that i can't join early is that i have obligation the entry to universiti and finishing my high school.
 :-roll
What is your opinion? :-think
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 13, 2011, 02:08:30 PM
From my side all I can say is that everything is welcome. List the types you have to build and if any of us have kit to join, this is base for the group build.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 13, 2011, 06:10:24 PM
Here you are list of jet kits I have and can be used in Group Builds:

F-84G, Revell 1/48
P-59, Collect Aire, 1/48
F9F, Monogram, 1/48
Me262, Revell, 1/72
Vampire Mk.I, CMR, 1/72
SAAB Lansen, Heller, 1/72
MiG-21, Revell, 1/72
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 13, 2011, 09:12:05 PM
Sall, I could do the F-16 from a kit in my collection.

From No.1's list I could do the Me 262, F-84G or F, and an ancient MiG-21.

I like the idea of the CR.42 that Profa suggested but I'd actually have to buy that kit in order to do the build. So far I've been trying to build my unfinished stuff before buying new ones, but a CR.42 is a favorite. The same for the Dewoitine 500 series--I'd be tempted to find one of those, also.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 13, 2011, 09:23:21 PM
Hm...I would like to build F-16.It's very nice plane,but i don't want you buy kit becouse of me! :-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 13, 2011, 11:21:05 PM
I've got an F-16 in storage, Sall! I also have an F-16-equipped Air National Guard unit right up the street from my work hangar in Tulsa, so reference material shouldn't be a problem for me. :-cool Y'all just say the word and I'll find a decal sheet.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on March 14, 2011, 08:30:46 AM
For these listed by Srecko, I might join with F-84G and Me262, both in 1/72.
Sorry, no plan whatsoever for F-16 - too modern for my collection...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 16, 2011, 03:18:45 PM
Maybe we can organize a group build of MiG-21? :-jump
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 16, 2011, 03:31:19 PM
If we do the MiG-21 I will take the "ancient kit" place that Srecko did with the SBD. My '21 is a VERY old IMC model that has "battle damage" parts.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 16, 2011, 03:40:35 PM
One problem... too much of MiG-21 here last time. Count on this that I will start in day or two to build my MiG-21 which is received for review. In general no problem to me at all as well I have one spare Revell kit but forum content would be better if we have more different subjects.

It is on you of course, I will follow from my side your interest.

:))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 16, 2011, 04:59:40 PM
Not be a MiG-21. I agree that there are to many on this forum.
Of course,there must be no F-16,as said Profa it is too modern for someone.
I'm personally not for jet models of WW II,such as Me 262.I would prefer to do some of the Cold War planes,such as F-4 or MiG-17 or MiG-19.
I don't know if it is to modern for Profa.
What is your opinion?I don't know how many of you have these models.
In any case,i vote for a modern jet aircraft,the 3th generation.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 16, 2011, 05:24:44 PM
Why worry about Profa ;) He is not going to build jet planes as well you are not going to build WW1 kits :)) So each of you would find its place here
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 16, 2011, 07:47:10 PM
Well,3th generation plane? :-roll
Some F-4? :-think
Speaking of the F-4, Germany has offered to donate his F-4, our neighbors Croats.
It could be a nice project for the group build!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on March 17, 2011, 07:23:03 AM
No.1 is right - don't worry about my interests, as I don't worry about yours or others'...
I'll just join to GBs I'd like, you to the ones you're more in, and that's it ;), and each of us shall follow with interest others' work :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 17, 2011, 04:11:35 PM
Yes, I agree. We can use the group projects as a fun way to "compete" with each other in a fun, relaxing way with no pressure.

Sall, do as I did with the SBD build--pick a subject and offer it up as a Group Build thread. If we end up with ten modelers in the project or only one it will still be of interest to all, if only to watch. In theory we could have two or three groups going at once that appealed to a couple of us in each variety of aircraft being modeled.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 23, 2011, 04:03:26 PM
We've all been busy lately, so I'll ask now--- Has anyone decided for certain on the subject for the next Group Build? I'm just curious what April holds in store. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 23, 2011, 04:09:31 PM
As I know this have to be Vought F4U Corsair...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 23, 2011, 05:41:21 PM
I thought that might be the one but decided to check. A good choice, especially since draken35 has his shiny new F4U-7!

I have a question to pose to all who might be in this Group Build--do you mind if I restore an old model rather than a new project? I have a couple of Corsairs that were damaged during one of our moves and they've been rotting in a box for many years. My plan would be to completely disassemble and strip the paint from one of my old Otaki kits and renew it using new methods. Opinions are welcome!

Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 23, 2011, 07:35:16 PM
Good question! All group build in general state work on brand new kit (not assembled) but as well you are working in real life on restorations, maybe the restoring could be accepted for build. Lets see what other members think, I am sure that their input would be valuable.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 23, 2011, 07:42:04 PM
I agree, everyone should put forth their feelings on the idea.

Maybe, rather than doing the restoration in a normal Group project, we could someday do a "Group Restoration/Rebuild" of any finished model that we want to redo, regardless of type.

Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on March 23, 2011, 09:55:03 PM
I don't mind restoration in the GB project :-think - anyway you're going to start from almost zero, or have even worse situation - first you'd have to disassemble and clean, and only then start anew... As you do the same in the real life, this I would accept as your best show of the trade ;)
I myself have bigger problem - all of my models are stuck in big boxes down in the cellar, and I don't (didn't :-wall) have any intention of rummaging through it... If you persuade me strong enough, F4Us and D.VIIs are going to see light of the day much earlier than planned :-roll
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 24, 2011, 06:12:27 AM
 :) :-clap Profa, my kits are in boxes in my toolshed. I know what you are saying when you talk about rummaging through them! Thank goodness my wife told me to mark all the moving boxes so I have some idea of which ones to cut open when I need something........ :-roll

When I do refinish the Corsair it'll be a good learning/teaching experience on paint stripping, disassembly, canopy repair and on and on.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 01, 2011, 07:08:13 PM
So who will start with Corsair group build?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 01, 2011, 07:29:05 PM
Mine's done! :-jump :-jump :-jump
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6631.jpg)
and:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6632.jpg)

APRIL FOOL  :-blah

I can start the thread if y'all are good with my "restoration" project.
Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 01, 2011, 07:36:55 PM
No problem about the restoring, idea is good and very rare so go ahead :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 09, 2011, 04:23:41 PM
I'd like to suggest a CR.42 group project for later this year. Draken and I just acquired kits and Profa is interested. Perhaps we should plan this for the summer or fall months to give everyone time to arrange the time and materials. With enough warning maybe we can get a larger participation on this project and there are certainly many, many interesting nationalities and paint schemes so that we won't duplicate.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 09, 2011, 04:45:00 PM
Strongly agree on this, hope that by then I'm going to finish ongoing projects and clear the table for these two :-jump
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 09, 2011, 04:53:28 PM
I am in ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 09, 2011, 05:20:15 PM
Strongly agree on this, hope that by then I'm going to finish ongoing projects and clear the table for these two :-jump

We could use your schedule as a starting point for the Falco Build, Profa. When you're ready, I'm ready! :-wave

For this build I'm gently leaning toward one of the various Hungarian schemes or perhaps a Swedish winter scheme.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 09, 2011, 05:32:46 PM
Draken say September so this could be date?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 09, 2011, 05:39:52 PM
Agree on September :-ok
Only thing is, Draken said it would suit him not before September - shall we wait for his announcement, since for me one month is all the same, and it might make difference to him... Draken, waiting for your call :-razz but we could nevertheless change schedule whenever we please... it's not that we're bound to calendar or something... ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 09, 2011, 06:10:47 PM
I totally agree--the schedule can be whatever works the best for the most builders.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 14, 2011, 10:23:33 AM
Friends,

I am sure that we all follow all sad info which coming from Japan. How about to dedicated May to the model build of the aircrafts with Japanese markings? Any type, any age, with Japan insignia?

Cheers :-wave
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 14, 2011, 03:20:39 PM
That sounds like a good idea. Count me in for something, either another restoration or a new-build depending on what I can find in my storage.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 14, 2011, 03:31:53 PM
I have few kits in my collection and no problem to build them. Also- we can even start for example this week and continue this dedicated Group Build until the end of May. As well circumstances are special maybe no need to hold strictly to the specific month.

;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on April 14, 2011, 08:21:18 PM
That is very nice thought...
 :-love
I like the idea
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 15, 2011, 08:27:40 AM
Hi mates,

Sorry if I answer so lately, I completely missed this thread...  :-red :-red :-red :-red :-red

For the CR42 group, september will be most reasonable for me because before that, I have to finish:

- my DH2 as soon as possible - Hope for may
- my Spad VII for the 30th of august (participating to a French forum group build) and probably for that time another biplane aircraft (Pfalz D.IIIa)

And I have to begin, for review:

- MustHave! Curtiss Mohawk 1/48
- Retrowings Skyhawk 1/144

Plus give a good end to all the kits I've begun and that are waiting on my stash...

The others GB that are interresting me amongst those cited here:

- Me 262 (I own the tiny but splendid 1/144th scale Trumpeter kit)
- Rafale M (1/144th Revell)
- Fokker D.VII (1/48th Eduard)
- Dewoitine 501 (1/48th Hi-Tech)

Other aircrafts that are interresting me for a group build:
- Albatros family (D.II to D.V)
- Roland C.II
- Saab Draken
- Saab Gripen
- some "What-if 1946"

Of course, it's OK for me the possibility to restore old kits...

That is said for the aircrafts. But why not to organize such a group build for the "Ground forces": will there be someone interrested? The first Ground Force GB could take place also in september...

Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 15, 2011, 08:47:19 AM
Your plans sound interesting and right now I am capable to join this proposed builds:

Skyhawk
Me 262
Fokker D.VII
Dewoitine 501
Albatros family

For Ground Forces will be everything possible with more active members and this is other story...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 15, 2011, 08:57:10 AM
Your plans sound interesting and right now I am capable to join this proposed builds:

Skyhawk
Me 262
Fokker D.VII
Dewoitine 501
Albatros family

For Ground Forces will be everything possible with more active members and this is other story...

Don't forget your CR42...
The Skyhawk of Retrowings can be build in a group build of course, and be the subject of an article for the site. But in such a case, that group build must take place as soon as possible (june?). Not a problem for me in the present case because a 1/144th should be a quick build.

I like also your proposal for a Japanese group build, but for may I will not have time to participate (and don't own Japanese aircraft on my stash)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 15, 2011, 09:04:26 AM
Off course, Cr.42 will be there too. Pity for Group Build for Japan... at least I will start this topic and hope somebody will join to me
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 15, 2011, 09:37:45 AM
Unfortunatelly with all the kits waiting for finish I don't intend to start another one until at least some are cleared from "in-progress" into the "finished" "box"... Therefore no room for Japan, although would gladly build pair of Zeros, Hasegawa 1/72 and Academy 1/144.
As for group builds, I agree on that but would suggest that we start towards the end of the year (after Falco). For that I plan simultaneous Italian triple-build: AS 42 Sahariana, ABM 42 and Autoblinda AB 43, all of them Italeri 1/72 :)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 15, 2011, 10:16:21 AM
I will try to participate for the Japanese Group Build, but only if I can find a 1/144th kit... Bigger kit would ask for more time to be build, and that is my actual problem: time...

For the Ground Forces, the first GB can be a "wheeled" vehicles, any period...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 15, 2011, 04:35:07 PM
I like the Ground Forces idea also. I may have to do a restoration for the first project there as my supply of MVs is pretty slim (and I'm not ready to start on that bomb truck just yet).

As far as the Japan-Build, why don't we let that be an "open-ended" thread as Srecko mentioned earlier. That way everyone who wants to contribute, but doesn't have room on the bench now, can do so later.

September is great for me and the Falco. I am in for the Me 262 also as I have both a Monogram and Tamiya 1/48 version.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 15, 2011, 05:13:13 PM
As well the situation is so special, maybe in the Group Build for Japan could include everything Japan, naval vessels, vehicles, Formula 1 and so on...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 15, 2011, 05:22:49 PM
For the Ground Forces, we will see how to organize GB's.

Actually I have two ideas:
- Wheeled AFV's
- Star Wars

For the Japan GB, good idea Srecko to permit all what is Japanese, including cars, ships, etc.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 22, 2011, 01:57:41 PM
Lets see- for the May Group Build, can we do Fokker D.VII? Kits from WW1 are are here so maybe this could be interesting?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 22, 2011, 03:54:12 PM
That'll be an interesting project but I'll have to watch from the sidelines--no such kit in my "inventory".

A thought--could we also open the Japan GB in May and run it through the summer months?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 22, 2011, 04:44:08 PM
Way to go mate- we will open two Group build subject in May so everybody could find its place :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 22, 2011, 06:40:13 PM
I am ready for Japan!!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 22, 2011, 06:59:41 PM
Well,you have heavy equipment! :)) :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 22, 2011, 07:15:52 PM
I definitely have to go to the basement and retrieve Roden's Fokker(s) :-roll. While at it, maybe I'd pick Academy's A6M5c, although already have A6M3 prepared... Anyway, taking part in both... :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on April 22, 2011, 08:01:05 PM
I definitely have to go to the basement and retrieve Roden's Fokker(s) :-roll. While at it, maybe I'd pick Academy's A6M5c, although already have A6M3 prepared... Anyway, taking part in both... :-ok
Don't talk, go to the basement asap   :-wise
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 22, 2011, 08:27:31 PM
I definitely have to go to the basement and retrieve Roden's Fokker(s) :-roll. While at it, maybe I'd pick Academy's A6M5c, although already have A6M3 prepared... Anyway, taking part in both... :-ok

Or if you don't do that I will sing you a songs and translate this in my perfect Eenglish
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on April 22, 2011, 08:38:50 PM
I definitely have to go to the basement and retrieve Roden's Fokker(s) :-roll. While at it, maybe I'd pick Academy's A6M5c, although already have A6M3 prepared... Anyway, taking part in both... :-ok

Or if you don't do that I will sing you a songs and translate this in my perfect Eenglish

 :-help :-help :-help
I'll go in Profa's  basement, just don't sing  :-wch
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 22, 2011, 08:41:51 PM
Going to go, going to go, just to save us all :-dal
@Samuraj: Degelow? :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 22, 2011, 08:44:47 PM
:)) :)) :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on April 22, 2011, 11:28:41 PM
@Samuraj: Degelow? :-ok
Well you know me well :)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 23, 2011, 12:10:19 AM
All right, follow and raise with Berthold :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 23, 2011, 08:59:33 PM
I am ready for Japan!!!

Me too!!!!
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6720.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6722.jpg)

I also have several unbuilt kits to pick from, including a nice Ki-45 that was part of my antique store acquisition. The glory of it is that I know which boxes all of them are in!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 23, 2011, 09:46:11 PM
Are the egg-planes accepted? I'm tempted by a Zero or an Eagle...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 23, 2011, 09:50:38 PM
Good idea! Why not but hope others will accept this too ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 23, 2011, 09:53:13 PM
OK, I will wait their answers...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 23, 2011, 11:03:20 PM
Why not, as long as it is decorated by meatballs ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 23, 2011, 11:15:00 PM
It is ok...Just start build!! :-tri :)) :-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 24, 2011, 02:18:01 AM
Are the egg-planes accepted? I'm tempted by a Zero or an Eagle...

Yes! The egg planes qualify in my opinion. Heck, the Raiden in my photo looks just about like an egg and it was really designed that way! :-think
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 24, 2011, 07:37:59 AM
Thank you mate, I immediately order for an egg!!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 24, 2011, 07:46:40 AM
Done.
Ordered for a Zero and a F-15 Eagle.
Ordered here:
http://stores.befr.ebay.be/AlwaysModel?_rdc=1
I bought at this guy the egg-2000. Prices are good, delivery is fast, and seller serious. Hope to receive my kits for the end of the week...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 25, 2011, 08:14:26 AM
I have an idea for my old Raiden model that I think might be interesting........
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 25, 2011, 08:19:29 AM
Tell us more, Scott...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 25, 2011, 08:21:10 AM
Another info, for an eventual Fokker D.VII Group Build: it seems that Wingnut Wings will release soon their so awaited 1/32 model...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 25, 2011, 08:23:44 AM
Tell us more, Scott...

You know I like unusual, offbeat markings. :-dal Perhaps I'll let y'all make a couple of guesses before I confess!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 25, 2011, 08:51:34 AM
Tell us more, Scott...

You know I like unusual, offbeat markings. :-dal Perhaps I'll let y'all make a couple of guesses before I confess!

OK! First proposal: American markings!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on April 25, 2011, 11:40:45 AM
Great Britain?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 25, 2011, 04:22:15 PM
Samuraj wins the prize :-obey, though you were very close, Draken! :-flo My plan is to disassemble the old build and restore it as one of the British-operated ATIAU-SEA machines, probably B1-02. I'd considered the bare metal U.S. version but I don't know what the surfaces on the model will look like when I strip the old paint. If it is really nice I still may go NMF.

Here it is before:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6849.jpg)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: dragan_mig31 on April 25, 2011, 06:06:17 PM
What about mig-21 GB?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 25, 2011, 07:05:45 PM
All right from my side. August?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 25, 2011, 07:25:04 PM
August sounds good to me, too. I may have to invest in a better kit than the ancient thing I have here. It's missing the canopy, but I might be able to make one.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 25, 2011, 07:27:20 PM
I will participate. :-tri From my side,august is ok! :-flo Will see what variant od MiG-21 i will buy. Maybe again Bis...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 25, 2011, 07:32:32 PM
I cannot say actually if I will participate or not. But hope so...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 25, 2011, 08:28:58 PM
I decided to build Condor MiG-21 SMT 1/72. :-bat Now i read on internet,that the kit is totally rubbish,but i consciously commit to this problem because i like that model.I hope that Dragan,who is already doing this kit to help me,with advices. :-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 25, 2011, 08:34:06 PM
I work few decades ago one Russian kit of MiG-21SMT in that scale and it was nice to me in that time.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 25, 2011, 08:44:26 PM
I would be happy if i could find some normal kit of this plane,but in our country,it isn't possible! :-roll
Do you have that kit in your shelf now?Maybe you could shot few photos for me... :-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 25, 2011, 08:53:46 PM
Nothing to regret... :(
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 25, 2011, 08:58:15 PM
Thank you in any way... :-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: dragan_mig31 on April 26, 2011, 12:32:09 AM
Great than august it is.I will try to modify a zvezda mig-21 bis into a Yugoslav MF :) much better solution than building a ancient KP kit or the newer mastercraft shitty kits that I have.

sall condor or eastern express is the best solution for a SMT.The fujimi SMT is out of proportion as I have read so far on the internet and they are 5 times cheaper than the fujimi SMT.
Here is mine condor mig-21 SMT.A fully scratched cockpit,canopy and windshield,pitottube and I forgot what else

(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/dragan_mig31/SMT-013.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/dragan_mig31/SMT-014.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/dragan_mig31/SMT-012.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/dragan_mig31/SMT-07.jpg)
(http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i315/dragan_mig31/SMT-02.jpg)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on April 26, 2011, 12:54:32 AM
All right-i will build Condor SMT!I will do some enrichment,like on my Bis,and scratched all things what i have to. :-flo
How and what material you use to make canopy and windshield? :-think
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 26, 2011, 07:58:46 AM
I'd sure like to build the F13 version in 1/48th, but I may need some advice on that one!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: dragan_mig31 on April 26, 2011, 11:12:33 AM
I think there is no f-13 in 1:48.I have red somewhere that there is a resin conversion for the academy PF.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on April 26, 2011, 12:25:09 PM
I'd sure like to build the F13 version in 1/48th, but I may need some advice on that one!
Neomega builds resin conversion set for Academy kit . To regret I don't have that set, but I have the two-seater conversion set, judging by that, a serious work needs to be done to get proper kit. Unfortunately I doubt that Eduard will proceed with their Mig-21 family in that direction so conversion sets are all we have...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on April 26, 2011, 04:59:50 PM
Yes, I had seen the Neomega conversion kit on the internet. It's a shame it isn't available as I really like the simple look of the early airplanes with the small intake and shock spike. I'll keep searching the auction websites and maybe I'll get lucky!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on April 26, 2011, 08:11:09 PM
For the CR42 Group Build, I will check all my doc in the next few days...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 28, 2011, 05:15:12 PM
I went fishing today... :))
Luckily (and by pure chance), of 5+ boxes totalling 150+ models, the first box I opened contained what I was looking for :-ok:
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/jaka013/projekti/ROD_Fokker_D_VII/th_m00-svinaokupu.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/jaka013/projekti/ROD_Fokker_D_VII/m00-svinaokupu.jpg)
Now, just wandering where to start :-think

While at it, I came to idea to make one-ace-build (after some more rummaging-through-the-box :-jump):
(http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/jaka013/projekti/ROD_Fokker_D_VII/th_Degelowstashmala.jpg) (http://i199.photobucket.com/albums/aa189/jaka013/projekti/ROD_Fokker_D_VII/Degelowstashmala.jpg)
Then I thought better and stuck to the original plan  :-roll - I'm going to build upper row - Berthold's and Degelow's plane - while other would wait for other chance...

I would suggest that this group build topic and everything connected to it (in-build posts) becomes separated, either as separate sub-forum or sticky topic in modelling part, and that every member starts his own topic on his build... OK?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on April 28, 2011, 05:18:26 PM
Quote
I would suggest that this group build topic and everything connected to it (in-build posts) becomes separated, either as separate sub-forum or sticky topic in modelling part, and that every member starts his own topic on his build... OK?

I am afraid not, we start in different way so we will keep it in that way.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on April 28, 2011, 05:25:01 PM
OK :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on May 04, 2011, 05:30:06 PM
We've been talking on the Curtiss 75 thread about doing a GB of the Mohawk. Would June work so that draken35 can get his MustHave! review model finished?

Whew! I finally found mine deep inside a box......
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6893.jpg)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 04, 2011, 07:30:02 PM
All right... will see to get any kit...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 04, 2011, 08:42:25 PM
Will try to be ready, to build the Must Have!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 04, 2011, 08:47:43 PM
Just to complete D.H. 2 :(
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 04, 2011, 08:48:20 PM
Yes mate, it's the priority!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 04, 2011, 08:53:03 PM
Rigging... :( :( Hope you will not lost your self in all those wires
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 04, 2011, 08:58:30 PM
Well, to present the kit on the forum I will finish it without rigging. Rigging will be made, but later. On that aircraft it's so difficult - and I'm really a nervious guy - that I will limit the operation to one or two rigs per day. Of course that will take many time, that's why I prefer to present it without the haubans...
Tomorrow I will work principally on the DH2. Have some minor corrections to do; some photoetch to place and then we will begin the painting phase - Sorry for the delays; those last weeks I'm unguilty...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 04, 2011, 09:02:48 PM
Just enjoy mate ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 04, 2011, 09:05:29 PM
 :-tri
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on May 10, 2011, 08:17:06 AM
We're talking about doing a GB of the various marks of F-84 later on this year. Stay posted for details.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 10, 2011, 09:09:04 AM
Yeah ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 10, 2011, 09:47:17 AM
I stay posted...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on May 10, 2011, 05:32:29 PM
I took the liberty of making a list of the current proposals that we've talked about in this thread. This is just informal and we may always switch dates for the best participation of all members who want to join.

May:            Fokker D.VII
June:           Curtiss Hawk 75/P-36.
July:            Open, but Daniel has talked about doing an MV build at some point.
August:       MiG 21.
September: C.R. 42.
October:     Tentatively the F-84 Family?

I hope I haven't missed any that were discussed up to this point. The Japan Build should continue on for a while (in my opinion) and we can just add projects to it as we proceed. And, as always, I suggest flexibility to promote the most builders. :-flo

Opinions and suggestions are heartily welcome!
Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 10, 2011, 06:12:11 PM
Sound good to me, just to see what can be done in July. Good work with this list mate :-clap
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 10, 2011, 06:16:29 PM
Maybe some jet plane. :)) Joke :-joke
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 10, 2011, 06:33:52 PM
No problem... just place what you have and maybe this can go
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 10, 2011, 06:55:12 PM
I have nothing.I do not care which model i buy.Do any of you have a jet model ...?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 10, 2011, 06:56:46 PM
I have jet models in collection but some are rare items. A very little bit of the fashion mainstream (like F-4, F-16 and so on...)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 10, 2011, 07:05:12 PM
Well,we will see what models have another members,and then we can agree what we build.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 10, 2011, 07:30:47 PM
For an MV group build, we must have to know how many people are interrested to participate... We can discuss of that and eventually prepare a first MVGB for the end of the year, july being perheaps prematurated?

For an aircraft, what do you think about a fighter of the 4th generation: Gripen, Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale or Raptor?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 10, 2011, 07:35:35 PM
Good about fourth generation of aircraft. General or specific type? MVGB can be run separately... ?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on May 10, 2011, 07:47:38 PM
I'm in for MVs, whenever you say (although I'd also prefer it towards end of the year).
On the other hand, I can't possibly be in for August, missing MiG-21 in my stash (how come, I also wonder :-dal), and that that's generally vacation time and I don't think my family would let me take the model to the seaside :-roll Regarding 4th gen, I'll be bystander :-paper
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 10, 2011, 09:24:47 PM
If we decide to do any model 4th generation,i definitely participate.I do not care whether we do a certain type of aircraft,or will it be general 4th generations. :-jump :-jump :-jump
I do not care,how you arrange,i will support!Just let me know what you decided! ;) :-ok

 :-jump :-jump :-jump :-jump :-jump :-jump :-joke
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 10, 2011, 09:36:26 PM
I think general would be a good idea; so you can build the one you prefer...For me, Rafale or Gripen

For a MVGB, I would prefer end of the year. Could be a thema: WWII; modern; wheeled; tank hunter; German; Soviet; etc...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 12, 2011, 11:10:05 AM
I've narrowed down my choices to two models! For the July group build i will work on Heller Mirage 2000N 1/72 or Hasegawa F-15E Strike Eagle 1/72. By july i finally decide which model to work on!
:-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 12, 2011, 11:14:45 AM
I've narrowed down my choices to two models! For the July group build i will work on Heller Mirage 2000N 1/72 or Hasegawa F-15E Strike Eagle 1/72. By july i finally decide which model to work on!
:-flo

Sall, those are not 4th generation fighters... You have choice between Raptor, Rafale, Gripen or Eurofighter...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 12, 2011, 11:20:54 AM
Ok. :-ok Then Hobby Boss Rafale C 1/72 or Revell EF Typhoon 1/72. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: samuraj77 on May 12, 2011, 05:17:31 PM
Maybe classification on Wikipedia confused

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fourth_generation_jet_fighter

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fifth_generation_jet_fighter

"The only currently combat-ready fifth-generation fighter, the Lockheed Martin F-22 Raptor, entered service with the U.S. Air Force in 2005" - found on second link
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 12, 2011, 05:21:16 PM
Well... now it is on us to determinate what to do and to give our name!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 12, 2011, 05:42:29 PM
I agree with the classification as a wiki.
4th generation : F-15,F-16,Su-27,and other in Sukhoi famile,MiG-29,Mirage 2000,Tornado,etc.
4th ++ generation: Rafale,Gripen,Typhoon,F/A-18,and maybe F-16 Block 50/52,or F-16IN.-(MMRCA tender for new Indian jet fighter)
5th generation : F/A-22,YF-23,and Pak Fa...(stealth fighters).
You make decision,and let me know.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 12, 2011, 07:40:36 PM
Maybe "4th + 4th++"?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on May 12, 2011, 11:50:35 PM
I think it's the best option. This group build covers a lot of building,so it will be a different
 building.
As for myself,that's fine. What others think?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 02:20:44 PM
Can we organize Viggen group build for later this year? Maybe december or begin of 2012? It is lot time,just to all of us find kits of Viggen! ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 02:22:29 PM
... as well non of us have this kit but we do have big amount of other kits maybe better to forget. But this is just me :(
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on July 11, 2011, 04:45:43 PM
I'd agree with No.1 - too many kits in the stash to start running for another - maybe "splinter cammo" as a GB, and then everyvody might go from Finnish D.VII via German WWII to Raptor or Viggen... :-think
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 04:53:53 PM
Thats make more sense to me.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 05:00:41 PM
Well..I don't know. :-roll
I was for it to maintain Viggen group build, but ... Since most of us it's not for that... ;)
In the case of "build what you want" GB, i had probably done the A-10, which waiting for me. ;)
I think Viggen is very interesting aircraft, that we may be able to organize , but ... Maybe one day ... Who knows. :-flo
I understand the situation that most of you have many kits in the stash, so ... ;) ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on July 11, 2011, 05:08:23 PM
Sall,

If you wish to do a Viggen we'd like to see you start a new thread for it even if we can't do a GB. I don't build many jet aircraft but that airplane has always been at the top of my list to do. Perhaps I can find a kit in the future and we could build some!

I like Profa's splinter GB idea as that would give a lot of building options. So many ideas, so few months in a year!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 05:14:42 PM
I will try to find some kit in 1/72. But in Serbia,it will be hard. I already contact few model shops,and no one have Viggen,in any scale. :(
If you want join to me,you are welcome! ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on July 11, 2011, 05:23:09 PM
I will try to find some kit in 1/72. But in Serbia,it will be hard. I already contact few model shops,and no one have Viggen,in any scale. :(
If you want join to me,you are welcome! ;)

I think I will have the same problem on this side of the Atlantic....I'll be keeping my eyes open though!

Happy hunting!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on July 11, 2011, 05:34:33 PM
No Viggen in my stash too... Draken, Gripen, but that's all...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on July 11, 2011, 05:40:47 PM
No Viggen in my stash too... Draken, Gripen, but that's all...

Hmm...... :-think a Saab-build, or an all-Swedish-build? There are many possible angles to go on such a GB......
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on July 11, 2011, 05:41:39 PM
Hmm...... :-think a Saab-build, or an all-Swedish-build? There are many possible angles to go on such a GB......

Yes, good idea!!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 05:46:11 PM
I have only Lansen but they never have 'fields and meadow' pattern. Planes which have this pattern was Saab 105, J-35 (only one sample) and most used by Vigen. That was expensive scheme so aircraft was delivered to unit in natural metal and unit has organized paint in their workshops into that pattern.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 05:48:32 PM
Maybe this could be interesting:

http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/2011/03/17/viggen-at-lelystad/
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 05:50:08 PM
If you find some kit in 1/72,contact me. Maybe you can bay it for me,and then i send you money! ;)
Ok. Nothing of the Viggen group build! ;)

Hmm...... :-think a Saab-build, or an all-Swedish-build? There are many possible angles to go on such a GB......

Yes, good idea!!!

Yea! Im in! :-ok

@Srecko

It is sooo good inspiration!!  :-love
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 06:00:51 PM
I will lost my self in all of this suggestion... is any member capable to do again list of Group Build per months for this year?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 06:01:39 PM
May:            Fokker D.VII
June:           Curtiss Hawk 75/P-36.
July:            Modern jet fighter 4th and 4th+ generation.
August:       MiG 21.
September: C.R. 42.
October:     Tentatively the F-84 Family?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 06:03:01 PM
What is MV? So we have last two months free. One have to be for Dutch aircrafts and one Splinter Build?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 06:12:36 PM
I don't know what is MV,but in July is modern fighter!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on July 11, 2011, 06:16:44 PM
Even if I own a MiG-21 SMT, I will pass in August, I'm late enough for the may-june GB... :(
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on July 11, 2011, 06:22:09 PM
Another topic: what about a GB for the AFV's? We said some time ago to watch until the end of the year. So I propose we begin in december 2011 (some holidays can help to build the kits...), or in january 2012.

First proposal, for the first month: The Sherman tank. All variants accepted.

What do you think about that?

We can also make less GB for the AFV's (one GB for two months, or one GB per season - so we woul begin with Winter GB ;-) )
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 06:23:50 PM
I don't know what is MV,but in July is modern fighter!


That was stated in first version of your message (???) Never mind. Draken- why is SMT so important, as I know you have MiG-21? Any specific reason?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on July 11, 2011, 06:30:58 PM
I took the liberty of making a list of the current proposals that we've talked about in this thread. This is just informal and we may always switch dates for the best participation of all members who want to join.

May:            Fokker D.VII
June:           Curtiss Hawk 75/P-36.
July:            Open, but Daniel has talked about doing an MV build at some point.
August:       MiG 21.
September: C.R. 42.
October:     Tentatively the F-84 Family?

I hope I haven't missed any that were discussed up to this point. The Japan Build should continue on for a while (in my opinion) and we can just add projects to it as we proceed. And, as always, I suggest flexibility to promote the most builders. :-flo

Opinions and suggestions are heartily welcome!
Scott

I don't know what is MV... ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on July 11, 2011, 06:38:02 PM
What is MV? So we have last two months free. One have to be for Dutch aircrafts and one Splinter Build?

MV=Military Vehicle.

Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on July 11, 2011, 08:19:54 PM
Draken- why is SMT so important, as I know you have MiG-21? Any specific reason?

Yes mate, I own the Eduard MiG-21 SMT. But I don't understand your question...
As I've said, I will pass just because I have actually too many kits begun but not finished yet... I have to correct that situation, and more than that I want to participate to the CR42 and F-84 GB...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on July 11, 2011, 08:37:52 PM
I'm also in CR.42, F-84 and MV group builds, moreover I would like to at least start my 3-in-1 P-40 set... :-blah
For other, I would first like to finish at least some of the models started (D.V, 2x S.XIII, Ni.17...) Too long list and too short time :-dal
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 11, 2011, 09:33:26 PM
No problem mate, now I understand all. I know you are overload, just complete current build, we have time enough :)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on July 12, 2011, 06:08:06 PM
Here is an updated list as it stands right now.

July:           4 and 4+ Generation Jet Fighters, in progress.
August:       MiG 21
September: C.R. 42
October:     F-84 Family
November: ?
December: Armored Fighting Vehicles, with specific suggestion from draken for the Sherman tank in all its variety.

If I may make a suggestion--should we let November as an "open month" so that all the ongoing builds could have this extra time to be completed? It should be that we'll have good participation on all three upcoming builds and November would be a nice extra period to get them all done before the end of the year. Also, the AFV/MV build could be an open-ended thread like the Japan-Build so that we can contribute during a longer period. As always, comments and suggestions are welcome!

Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on July 12, 2011, 06:14:51 PM
Sound good to me. So it look like that I will buy some armor kit no matter that I am not interesting in subject? All right, if this is for forum benefit- I will!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on July 12, 2011, 06:35:54 PM
Sounds good to me too! OK for an open-ended thread for AFV's.

Srecko: no obligation mate, but if you participate to the AFV GB, you will discover new and different techniques.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on August 13, 2011, 12:37:52 AM
Just thought I'd suggest a slight change of the order for our G.B. schedule. Since the MiG 21 for August hasn't begun, and it's almost the middle of the month, we might wish to reschedule this important machine for early next year. We can let the rest of the schedule carry on as listed earlier and allow the July build to continue.

While I'm on the subject of the Group Builds, does anyone have a lead for some 1/48 Dutch or Belgian F-84 decals? I've got two F models and a G and I would like to do something other than a USAF bird for at least one or more of them. Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on August 13, 2011, 12:46:28 AM
I have Revell kit in 1/48 of F-84 and I can extract Dutch decals for you. Good suggestion for current Group Build (also suggestion not to propose anything if you can not work on it)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on August 13, 2011, 01:31:57 AM
Yup, but we do need to do a MiG 21 build sometime in the future. One of the most important and widely used fighters deserves our "Group" attention! :-ok This will give me time to acquire a better kit than the old IMC clunker I have here.

On the subject of the Mig 21, I almost talked another modeler (more of a collector, I should say) into selling me a 1/48 NeOmega F13 conversion but he decided to keep it.......... :-wall :-wall So close!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on August 13, 2011, 02:55:27 PM
Just thought I'd suggest a slight change of the order for our G.B. schedule. Since the MiG 21 for August hasn't begun, and it's almost the middle of the month, we might wish to reschedule this important machine for early next year. We can let the rest of the schedule carry on as listed earlier and allow the July build to continue.

While I'm on the subject of the Group Builds, does anyone have a lead for some 1/48 Dutch or Belgian F-84 decals? I've got two F models and a G and I would like to do something other than a USAF bird for at least one or more of them. Thanks in advance!

For F-84F Thunderstreak, DACO produces excellent decals for Belgian aircrafts, and sufficient sheets to make bare metal/Nato camo/Vietnam camo schemes.:
http://ultra.glo.be/daco/
On the home page, click above on "DAco decals"; then on the left on "Thunderstreak decals" (old decals and new decals)
I own the decals for the Vietnam camo version of the F-84F.

For the Thunderjet, I only know the decal sheet I presented here:
http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum/off-road/my-new-acquisition%28s%29/240/
Hope you can find this one in the USA...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on August 13, 2011, 09:03:42 PM
My mouth is watering after going to the DACO website, Daniel........what a beautiful collection of decal sheets. Not only are the aircraft sets fantastic but the letter/numeral sheets are a great thing.

As for the Cutting Edge sheet, I've been through my local shop's discontinued decal bin and had no luck. He has stock of some Cutting Edge products but it seems I am too late for this sheet. I'll keep looking, though.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on August 26, 2011, 11:47:18 PM
I've ordered up a Weekend Edition Eduard MiG-21 so I'll be ready for a GB whenever we can schedule it this winter!!! :-ok And I was wanting to build an East German version anyway so everything fits my needs.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on August 28, 2011, 01:23:42 PM
Why not, from 2012 this could be possible. And in few days start... ?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on August 28, 2011, 02:01:59 PM
My Falcos are ready, just waiting for the starting gun :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on August 28, 2011, 02:09:57 PM
My Falcos are ready, just waiting for the starting gun :-ok

You fire it :)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on August 28, 2011, 02:59:40 PM
My Falcos are ready, just waiting for the starting gun :-ok

I've been itching to start this build too! :-clap That B-25 on my bench is going to get shuffled off to storage for a while. :-paper
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: dragan_mig31 on September 03, 2011, 07:43:51 PM
So how about opening a Groupbuilds sub forum where every GB will have its own corner instead of all pposting in one topic where it is a little bit hard to keep track of all builds.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 03, 2011, 07:46:52 PM
This mean opening of sub forums but I personally do not prefer this. I more prefer this way of work and anyway we complete in most cases our build in one month while on other forums they last much longer.

But I will left to active builders in Group Builds to make decision on this.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 03, 2011, 07:59:13 PM
I agree with Dragan... ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on September 03, 2011, 09:45:06 PM
Each method has advantages. So I remain neutral...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 05, 2011, 11:54:57 PM
Well.. F-104 group build,early 2012? Of course,after MiG-21 group build. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 06, 2011, 12:02:26 AM
I think so. We need to begin the planning for next year soon.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 06, 2011, 12:21:18 AM
Well, lets remind what we have to complete for this year and start making all proposal for next.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 06, 2011, 12:58:42 AM
Maybe, january MiG-21, february F-104... That's enough time to finish all group builds for this year.
November is empty, for the same reason! ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 06, 2011, 01:19:49 AM
Yep, that is true. We have already talked about keeping the armor/MV build open for later contributions into the new year so we could start 2012 with the MiG and keep going with the MV at the same time. The F-104 works for me in February, and it would be neat to build two "opposing" interceptors in back-to-back months. Once we see how this winter goes we'll be able to adjust the schedule around as needed.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 06, 2011, 01:23:57 AM
I agree with you. ;)
Let see what another members think about that? :-think
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on September 06, 2011, 06:40:49 AM
Hope to have time at that moment to participate at the 104 GB...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 06, 2011, 08:28:19 AM
Better not ask me- I can join in many cases to all o this builds. This two fit to me.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on September 06, 2011, 10:00:51 AM
I'll do the digging, count me in whenever it starts...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 06, 2011, 12:56:21 PM
All right. For now, let it be that in January MiG-21, in February, F-104. We will see how the next group builds flow, so that if necessary any of these can be moved. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 06, 2011, 12:57:59 PM
Dewoitine 500
Bf110
Etandard
.
.
.
... just an options ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 06, 2011, 03:52:56 PM
I have the Bf 110 and I've found one of the Hi-Tech D-501s on ebay.......
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 06, 2011, 04:50:00 PM
So we have story here ;) By the way- Bf110 from Monogram in 1/72, any sample anywhere?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 06, 2011, 05:49:12 PM
I've just sent you a PM regarding the 1/72 Monogram. I can get them here rather easily but the postman will become richer! I'll visit the local hobby shop to see if there is one lurking on the shelves.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on September 06, 2011, 09:00:08 PM
Italeri 110C/D few feet underground... off to digging yet again :-dal
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 06, 2011, 09:16:30 PM
 :)) :))
There must be some F-104 in 1/144!  :)) :)) :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Profa on September 06, 2011, 10:26:38 PM
I'll spare time and dig both at the same time ;)... Just don't come up with fresh ideas for a while :-roll
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 07, 2011, 01:45:49 AM
It is somewhere! ;) Take  a break, and search again... ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 12, 2011, 12:16:01 AM
We were just admiring ta152c's new Bf-109 goodies on the Acquisitions thread when the thought occurred to me: Would it be a good idea to start a '109 GB thread and leave it open-ended like the Japan-Build? There are just so many different variations and paint schemes that we could build for years at whatever pace we felt like.

Thoughts?
Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 12, 2011, 06:42:43 AM
We were just admiring ta152c's new Bf-109 goodies on the Acquisitions thread when the thought occurred to me: Would it be a good idea to start a '109 GB thread and leave it open-ended like the Japan-Build? There are just so many different variations and paint schemes that we could build for years at whatever pace we felt like.

Thoughts?
Scott

Yes!!!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 12, 2011, 04:35:48 PM
There are so many possibilities that we could even sticky the thread if we wanted!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 12, 2011, 08:40:29 PM
It has begun. :-flo
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 12, 2011, 08:54:19 PM
You are moderator, make it sticky if you want, no problem... :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on September 13, 2011, 07:05:44 AM
I forget..... ;) Well, let's see how it starts first, we can always sticky it later.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 21, 2011, 05:58:13 PM
Any idea for November... or I miss something? I know that F-84 Family is for October
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on September 21, 2011, 06:13:24 PM
November-break,just to everyone finish current projects,and then start with new. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on September 21, 2011, 06:18:18 PM
All right...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 10, 2011, 09:57:32 AM
Hi mates,

Time to speak again about group builds...

It was planned to make an AFV GB (I propose the Sherman and all its variants), but those last days the idea was also launched to make a MiG-29 GB...

What are the planification you want for next months to come?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 10, 2011, 10:04:24 AM
As I know schedule for December is AFC Group Build, Sherman is just fine (my father drive one during Trieste crisis), January is also known as well February. MiG-29 can be launched any time but as I know you are too much loaded with other builds, Hellcat and Nieuport 10 (noted as well they are for review)... As I know MiG-21 is also somewhere there.

Too much of info ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on November 10, 2011, 10:14:32 AM
MiG-29 any time you want. :-tri
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 10, 2011, 10:23:22 AM
As I know schedule for December is AFC Group Build, Sherman is just fine (my father drive one during Trieste crisis), January is also known as well February. MiG-29 can be launched any time but as I know you are too much loaded with other builds, Hellcat and Nieuport 10 (noted as well they are for review)... As I know MiG-21 is also somewhere there.

Too much of info ;)

Yes, I've nice load actually :)
I hope to finish the Hellcat very soon; then I will concentrate on the Nieuport 10 and the Mohawk. Fokker D.VII and Albatros D.XI have no deadline for me...
Of course, I will have to build my AFV (interresting to note your father was a Sherman driver)
For the MiG-29, as it is also a kit for review, I wish to build it as soon as possible - same case for the 1/144th MiG-21 when I will receive it.
So much work... But so nice kits!!! ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on November 10, 2011, 05:13:19 PM
And my father worked on Shermans in North Africa and Italy from the start of Operation Torch until the end of WWII.

So, the current list of GB topics is:

November: Catch-up on all earlier GBs.
December: AFV/MV with Sherman as primary subject.
January:    MiG-21

After January we will have to discuss the next projects and their order. The subjects we've mentioned in earlier replies are: MiG-29, Bf-110, Etendard, and Dewoitine 5-series fighter family.

Suggestions for next year?
Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 10, 2011, 06:09:24 PM
Many things, like Beaufighter, Polikarpov I-15 family, Hs123, Me262, Starfighter...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on November 10, 2011, 07:53:57 PM
Definitely we must put somewhere MiG-29! ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 10, 2011, 08:08:12 PM
Definitely we must put somewhere MiG-29! ;)

You will work on kit?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on November 10, 2011, 08:13:03 PM
Off course!!! My favourite plane!! :-love How can I skip it?? NO WAY!!!!
One more thing.... Well we work on it soon(and put inside your's and Daniel's MiG-29 for review) or take it for later,and... Probably not see Daniel build in that topic... :-/
Perhaps the question sounds rude, but i would like to see as much builds as posible inside of topic!
Group Build MiG-29. :-love :-love
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 10, 2011, 09:06:27 PM
If everybody agree, we can postpose AFV group in january and program MiG-29 for december, if there are many people interrested by that plane...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 10, 2011, 09:09:01 PM
29 now in December? All right, works for me
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 10, 2011, 09:12:40 PM
That give to you and me the possibility to participate to that promising GB, and to start our kits for review quickly...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 10, 2011, 09:16:28 PM
Great! So we can make update on web site with nice gallery :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on November 10, 2011, 09:21:25 PM
Please, some access panels if you have! :)) :-tri
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on November 11, 2011, 07:04:43 AM
If everybody agree, we can postpose AFV group in january and program MiG-29 for december, if there are many people interrested by that plane...

That gives me a bit more time to plan my AFV project so I agree with the change, too.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 11, 2011, 08:16:10 AM
...And after january, there are some other interresting options:
MiG-21
(T)F-104
Dewoitine D.5xx family (I have big interrest for this one too!!!)
Saab fighters family
etc...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 11, 2011, 08:34:38 AM
As well AFV are easy to do, maybe to start this alongside with other builds?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 11, 2011, 08:49:36 AM
As well AFV are easy to do, maybe to start this alongside with other builds?

Well, it goes for AFV like for the aircrafts: some are easy to do, others not... ;)
Anyway, techniques are different. The difficulty for AFV is not specially the building but more finition: weathering, etc. And more than aircrafts, to be valorized AFV asks to be placed on dioramas...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 11, 2011, 09:03:33 AM
One question about SAAB- I have only Lansen, can we make all SAAB, not only fighters? Also we have consider Dutch aircrafts before, can we put it again on works?

All right about AFV, I understand and apologize for my previous statement. This is good demand to be placed on diorama!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 11, 2011, 09:31:32 AM
One question about SAAB- I have only Lansen, can we make all SAAB, not only fighters? Also we have consider Dutch aircrafts before, can we put it again on works?

All right about AFV, I understand and apologize for my previous statement. This is good demand to be placed on diorama!

For Saab we can indeed accept all Saab aircrafts, that will give us a nice variety of builds.
For Dutch aircrafts, it's also an interresting GB to do of course :)
And no problem for AFV mate, once again it's really something different from aircrafts...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on November 11, 2011, 06:45:27 PM
All of these sound excellent. How we proceed to schedule them is up to everyone.

So, as of now it stands:
December-MiG 29
January   -MiG 21
February and onward to be determined by the group. Does this sound good?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 11, 2011, 07:23:30 PM
... AFV GB in february then.

Sounds good for me...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 11, 2011, 07:39:18 PM
:-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on November 25, 2011, 08:54:22 AM
Well, the new Syhart decal sheet gives me the envy to build some Spitfires... Who is interrested by a "Spitfire group build" somewhere in 2012?

December 2011: MiG-29
January: MiG-21
February: AFV - Sherman family
March: Spitfire

Sounds Good to everybody?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on November 25, 2011, 08:58:07 AM
Yes, perfect for me. In that time will be available BM decals for Spitfires (Yugoslav) so there will be more options for us.

:))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on November 25, 2011, 04:57:54 PM
I agree, this is a good first-quarter lineup for next year.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on December 10, 2011, 09:11:50 PM
I'll put an idea that David (ta152c) thought of up to the group--Operation Torch machines for November, the 70th anniversary. We could also do other anniversary themes if it sounds like a good plan.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on December 10, 2011, 10:13:41 PM
All right, why not. Enough time to prepare for this. Any consideration about the Bf110?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on December 10, 2011, 10:37:14 PM
Absolutely! We need to all figure out a schedule beyond the first quarter of 2012 anyway.

Here's a possible schedule with the first three months already decided on:

January:    Mig-21
February:   AFV with emphasis on the Sherman
March:       Spitfire
And other proposals:
April:        SAAB aircraft, or Dutch aircraft in general if need be
May:         Bf-110

November: Operation "TORCH" machines.

As always, please join in with suggestions, possible changes, etc.
Scott

Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on December 10, 2011, 10:51:15 PM
I like it :-ok For April I have options for SAAB as well Dutch so better to make decision members who have less planes. Just one questions- when we said Dutch, does it mean Dutch construction with Dutch markings? I guess yes?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on December 10, 2011, 10:56:19 PM
I think Dutch markings even if the airplane isn't Dutch-designed, don't you? It would allow better participation I think.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on December 10, 2011, 11:03:25 PM
You are right, this give better options. From my side I will be focused on some vac-forms of Dutch machines.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on December 10, 2011, 11:35:42 PM
Good ideas indeed!

I own some Saab planes on my stash; and Nico sent me Dutch decals for my egg-Mustang; then all options is possible for me...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on January 08, 2012, 05:28:24 PM
I was just pondering the upcoming schedule and I realized I have made a major blunder a few replies back. I mentioned the subject for March being SAAB airplanes or "Dutch" marked aircraft. I should have really said "Swedish" marked aircraft. :-red I was thinking about two different things, I reckon. With my mistake being taken into consideration, it opens up another GB possibility. Why don't we do SAAB/Swedish machines one month and Fokker/Dutch aircraft on another build?

Let me post a revamped spring schedule for everyone's thoughts. We can swap subjects around if desired.

January-   MiG-21        
February- AFV, emphasizing the Sherman tank
March-     Spitfire
April-       SAAB aircraft/aircraft in Swedish service
May-        Bf-110
June-       Fokker aircraft/aircraft in Dutch service

November- Operation Torch

As always, we can modify the schedule by swapping subjects around a bit. Please make suggestions if you have them!
Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on January 08, 2012, 05:38:42 PM
This is good to me, just during the time to add more subjects. Or to add some GB holidays :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on January 08, 2012, 05:48:12 PM
Sounds good for me too, Scott!
If the AFV GB is successful, perheaps we can envisage another one for the second half of the year... Maybe SF this time?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on January 08, 2012, 05:52:59 PM
SF... why not :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on January 08, 2012, 07:56:24 PM
I agree Scott! ;) Maybe i will join in April GB with Saab JAS 39 Gripen... ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on January 27, 2012, 12:02:26 AM
I was just thinking that we have talked about doing a GB of the Dewoitine fighter family but this hasn't made it onto the schedule. How about adding this subject for July or August?

Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on January 27, 2012, 12:13:22 AM
Good for me. July is good month, maybe to left August blank as well in that time is most of vacations?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on January 27, 2012, 04:47:51 AM
I was meaning to ask when we should have an open month. That sounds fine to me also.
Here's a revised list:

January-   MiG-21        
February- AFV, emphasizing the Sherman tank
March-     Spitfire
April-       SAAB aircraft/aircraft in Swedish service
May-        Bf-110
June-       Fokker aircraft/aircraft in Dutch service
July-        Dewoitine fighter family
August-   Open/catch-up month

November- Operation Torch
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on January 27, 2012, 06:47:19 AM
Sound great :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on January 27, 2012, 05:41:11 PM
Good for me!

Perheaps, for september, a SF-group build? What do you think about?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on January 27, 2012, 06:13:14 PM
We did not do SF so this is attractive.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on January 27, 2012, 10:50:14 PM
Do we want to do the SF in July and save the Dewoitine for September? It would break up the airplane projects with a change-of-pace.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on January 27, 2012, 10:58:22 PM
Good for relax as well SF need less tension then regular plastic kit work
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on January 27, 2012, 11:38:05 PM
New update:
       
February- AFV, emphasizing the Sherman tank
March-     Spitfire
April-       SAAB aircraft/aircraft in Swedish service
May-        Bf-110
June-       Fokker aircraft/aircraft in Dutch service
July-        Science Fiction
August-   Open/catch-up month
Sept.-      Dewoitine fighter family

November- Operation Torch

Hmmmm.......October and December? :-think :-think

Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 26, 2012, 03:29:20 AM
A suggestion for October just came to me.

How about ANYTHING that was built or acquired and used by the military forces of the Soviet Union? We could do AFVs, aircraft, vessels, you name it. So many subjects could be worked on within such broad guidelines.

Opinions? Ideas?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Ernie on March 26, 2012, 04:15:28 AM
That works for me! :-ok
Ernie
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 06:59:36 AM
Even civilians could made?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 26, 2012, 09:56:05 AM
I agree! ;) Nice idea! :-flo
Maybe some Su-27 on my side. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 10:35:26 AM
I don't know, we have current MiG-29 build, still two kits have to be build, maybe not to continue with Soviets this year?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 26, 2012, 12:19:50 PM
I don't know, we have current MiG-29 build, still two kits have to be build, maybe not to continue with Soviets this year?

Sure, that is true. Maybe we'll wait until next year for this Build.

New ideas for October?

Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 12:44:18 PM
I have one airliner in my colelction and if I don't build it in GB, hardly that I can ever make it. So how about Sports-Civilians-UL.... ?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 26, 2012, 12:50:15 PM
What is UL?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 12:52:30 PM
Ultra Light ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 26, 2012, 01:03:32 PM
Also maybe we can do some UAV GB one day. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 01:08:16 PM
Maybe but how many kits are available?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 26, 2012, 01:36:18 PM
It is question and just proposal-to think and discuss about that... :-think
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 01:50:57 PM
So next year maybe...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 26, 2012, 01:53:59 PM
Enough time for everyone to prepare kits.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 01:54:58 PM
.... and to complete builds in progress :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 26, 2012, 02:16:29 PM
Right. ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on March 26, 2012, 05:27:19 PM
Civilians, sports, ULM (ultra light motorized)... Sounds good!!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on March 26, 2012, 06:58:59 PM
... gliders, agricultural spray airplanes... fire bombers... anything but military ;)
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on March 26, 2012, 07:00:48 PM
Hmmm... I have a project since a long time... Hope to have finished in october all the builds I must do; then I will have big fun!!!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on March 26, 2012, 10:41:34 PM
I like both ideas! I have some civilian kits here also.

Sall, make sure we are reminded of the UAV Build, too. That is a great subject and gives many choices, even up to the Drone programs in WWII. Great thinking, folks!
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Sall on March 27, 2012, 03:35:30 PM
 :-ok
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 01, 2012, 01:42:38 PM
All right- are you ready for Bf110 and who will start work?
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on May 01, 2012, 02:52:32 PM
Thread started. :-salut I can't work on them yet as we are traveling. Once we get home later this week I can contribute, though.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 01, 2012, 03:41:33 PM
No problem, I will start from my side and hope somebody else would join :))
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on May 30, 2012, 12:35:45 AM
Hi, everyone.

No.1 and I were visiting and have come to the conclusion that our Group Build schedule might benefit from a break for the next few months. We're all working on various projects, both in model-building and in other pursuits, and perhaps taking June, July, and August off would be a good idea. I certainly would like to see continued participation in the GBs that we've already undertaken if y'all wish to do so. We can easily restart in the fall and set our schedule accordingly.

Does this sound like a workable plan to everyone?

Thanks,
Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on May 30, 2012, 07:36:13 AM
I fully agree, this time can be used to complete projects from previous builds, to take a little rest and to do what they have on hart ;) After this three months we will see about continue of GB, we can do them but also focus on our projects, we can do anything we like, I think.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: draken35 on May 30, 2012, 06:10:14 PM
Sounds good for me, Scott. A break is a good idea and will permit me to finish some kits and to continue GB that I'm late in...
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Ernie on May 31, 2012, 03:38:47 AM
Sounds ok to me as well. Maybe I can auctuallly get started on a couple projects for the group builds already going! :-ok
Ernie
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on October 14, 2012, 04:10:46 PM
Friends,

For your consideration, should we go forward with the Operation Torch/North Africa GB for November? There are many armor, aircraft, and even ship subjects that could be constructed.

As has been my opinion in the past GBs, I suggest we could start this build on 1 November and leave it open-ended like we have with others.

Also, do we even need to formulate a GB schedule for next year? An idea would be to simply talk amongst ourselves every so often and decide on a subject we wish to build rather than having a set schedule like we did in the past. With our small band of builders we really don't need a schedule, I think. Opinions?

Let me know if we even want to start the Torch GB or not. :-flo

Scott
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: No.1 on October 14, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
GB not going bright as well many of us have private problems so we are less active in builds. No doubt that idea is good and I would like to hear what airplane was engaged there from all sides. Maybe I have something in shelf which could be make for this.

Next year... all right, but to see how many of us can work.
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Ernie on October 14, 2012, 04:38:57 PM
I know I have something for North Africa.....so that is not a problem.....clearing the bench before Nov. 1st.....well :)) I kind of like the idea of not having a set schedule and just discussing ahead of time a subject or theme. That way it might be easier to to pick something from our collections instead of having to search for and buy a kit. Sometimes we could keep it simple like say natural metal finish, or pick something broader like carribean militaries, or wheels and tracks, or transports (aircraft, ships, trucks and cargo vehicles both civil and military). I don't know, just some ideas from me, I am easy though and can go with pretty much anything that is decided.
Ernie
Title: Re: Group builds
Post by: Second Air Force on October 14, 2012, 06:13:34 PM
I think I'll go ahead and open a new topic in November and we can all just add what we wish with no pressure or deadlines at all. Anything goes and I reckon we could make the GB correspond to all of the North Africa campaign from the earliest days. That would open up some more interesting options.