LetLetLet ~ Warplanes

Let Let Let - Warplanes => Aircraft Modeling => Topic started by: Second Air Force on April 11, 2011, 05:29:49 PM

Title: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 11, 2011, 05:29:49 PM
I've mentioned in other threads that I purchased a large lot of models at an antique/junk store several years ago. This little jewel was one of the models in that group.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6711.jpg)

Here are the contents--the former owner had started the model by painting the cockpit and assembling the wing. I am going to finish it as a kind of "team build" of sorts. I'll add one of my resin R-1820s to replace the kit engine but it'll be pretty simple otherwise.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6710.jpg)

A request--do any of you have any other photos of the Dutch machines than the more common pictures on the web? I'd like to add markings that are just a little different but accurate.

Thanks in advance!
Scott
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 11, 2011, 05:31:56 PM
What a topic!!! I simply love this machine so much!!! And yes, images of Dutch machine follow :)) I have somewhere article about this machine, it have Dutch inscription in cockpit ;)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 11, 2011, 06:46:04 PM
Since the first time I saw a photo of one of these I've been impressed. Over 4,500 feet per minute climb rate is astonishing for the time!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 11, 2011, 06:47:35 PM
I have add new subject for this machine but also will extract some details from images and put here to support your build ;)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 11, 2011, 07:13:28 PM
As I said in my first post, the engine will be replaced for this build. The kit part is pretty basic and I just happen to have an early R-1820 mold that I made for a different project. This photo shows the kit engine and a built-up resin engine from an unfinished Academy B-17B kit (that I need to finish).
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6712.jpg)

Thanks for the reference material, No.1! :-ok
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 11, 2011, 07:43:32 PM
You are welcome :)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on April 11, 2011, 09:15:22 PM
Great topic.Whis will be interesting build! :-clap
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 12, 2011, 08:00:33 AM
Now that I've gotten the extra photo references that No.1 posted in Combat Warplanes section I'll be doing a bit more resin casting. The propeller and spinner in the kit don't satisfy me so I'm going to cast a modified SBD unit for this project. It was going to be a quick build but now I think more detailing is necessary since y'all are interested in the little Interceptor.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on April 12, 2011, 09:52:45 AM
Hardly wait... :-jump
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 12, 2011, 05:34:24 PM
Extraordinary looking aircraft!!!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 12, 2011, 07:24:11 PM
I have one kit of CW-21 in 1/72 scale made by RarePlane in vacform technique and must say that details are very crisp and the kit overall look is very good.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 12, 2011, 07:29:16 PM
The RarePlanes kit also gives you the option of building the early CW-21 with aft-retracting landing gear, doesn't it? The drawing shows some details of the first airplane.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 12, 2011, 07:37:07 PM
Yes, there is few parts which have to be used in this way.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Paul Andrews on April 12, 2011, 09:07:25 PM
This will be good...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 13, 2011, 08:15:09 AM
Thanks, Paul.

The propeller mold is curing as I type this. Next will be to figure out what to do with the landing gear struts and tire/wheel assemblies. Then, on with the building!

Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 13, 2011, 08:33:50 PM
A comparison of the kit engine, prop, and long spinner next to the resin examples that will replace them:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6718.jpg)

The resin versions are an R-1820-32 and the Hamilton Standard counterweight prop with the short spinner dome that is correct for the CW-21B. The master for these came from an old Hasegawa SBD-2 kit. The propeller blades will need to be cut down to the correct diameter and reshaped just a little, but the hub is much better.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on April 13, 2011, 10:47:11 PM
Nice mate :-clap
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 14, 2011, 07:34:50 AM
Big difference, the resin parts will be a nice upgrade!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 14, 2011, 08:03:57 AM
Yes, the new engine and prop will be worthwhile, especially since the CW-21 is basically an engine with a little aluminum tagging along behind it! :-eek Though there is no resemblance, this little fighter reminds me of the Gee Bee racers--all engine and no airplane.

It pays to have the RTV and resin handy for short-run kits like these. In fact, I removed the propeller and spinner from a completed SBD so I could make these molds.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 15, 2011, 06:44:40 PM
I couldn't mow the lawn this morning because of weather so I started cleaning up the engine and prop I cast. First the propeller had to be shortened considerably to get the correct diameter for the little Interceptor and this gives it the correct "paddle blade" profile also:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6723.jpg)

The prior owner didn't do such a great job joining the wing sections so I am drinking coffee and reworking these areas right now. Too bad I have to go to work this afternoon or this project could be very far along by tonight! :-roll
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 15, 2011, 07:53:21 PM
Much work as could be seen :(
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 17, 2011, 08:17:17 AM
This evening I sat down to assemble this little fighter. The person who originally started the build had already installed the photoetched cockpit details and painted both sides of the fuselage, so all that remained for me to do was to fit everything up and glue the pieces together.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6740.jpg)

If anyone finds one of these little kits for sale it is a rather fun build. It needs a little detailing here and there but is still much easier than the typical vacuform or other short-run injection model.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 17, 2011, 08:19:43 AM
That aircraft haves a special but nice silhouette...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 17, 2011, 08:25:12 AM
I just think about to find in waist box some spare parts and to try to built my sample... ?
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 17, 2011, 04:38:42 PM
I can help with an engine, propeller and spinner--just say the word and I'll get a set made up! Also, look in your spares box for some P-40 or similar tires as they are very close to the CW-21s. I'm thinking about turning the landing gear legs from aluminum on my lathe if I can't make these work and I can easily make you a set also.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 17, 2011, 05:10:30 PM
Good point about P-40!!! Will inform later about...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 18, 2011, 08:20:48 AM
The Curtiss is ready for paint finally. During the process I decided I wanted an open canopy so I vacuformed the original for "insurance". I've had problems in the past breaking plexiglas when cutting it with my razor saw and wanted a backup canopy just in case. As it turned out I did crack the sliding portion of the original so I'll be using the copy.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6756.jpg)

Here's the finished engine just before installation in the airplane. The ignition leads are sticking out above each cylinder head because I'm lazy and you can't see them with the cowling on anyway..... ;)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6753.jpg)

I had to hang the prop and spinner temporarily before painting so I could stare at that huge engine on the tiny airframe.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6757.jpg)

Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 18, 2011, 08:22:54 AM
Splendid, Scott! Your engine is beautiful!!!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on April 18, 2011, 08:25:31 AM
Greeeeeeeeeat!!! :-clap :-clap :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 18, 2011, 08:34:16 AM
Very fast progress!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 18, 2011, 08:45:06 AM
Thanks, friends.

I still need to install the propeller governor on the engine. I totally forgot to do that earlier but it is easily done after painting.

I did more and more research on the paint scheme and finally satisfied myself that the underside is aluminum lacquer on the original. I had many doubts but find several sources, including the IPMS Stockholm lists that I frequently study, that show a silver belly with Medium and Olive green upper surfaces. Opinions?
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 18, 2011, 08:51:57 AM
Hope this helps but hope that our Dutch friends will give more highlights :))
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 19, 2011, 07:29:44 PM
I sprayed the undersides in MM aluminum and sealed it to achieve the correct aluminum lacquer finish used on the real airplane. I've also chosen the ship number I'll be applying, CW-348.

Scott
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: g-1reaper on April 19, 2011, 11:40:13 PM
The picture Srecko placed is spot-on, the best reference for your paint work! Good luck with finishing this nice little bird! I did mine some 10 years ago, it's still a nice little kit to look at!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 20, 2011, 07:24:05 AM
The picture Srecko placed is spot-on, the best reference for your paint work! Good luck with finishing this nice little bird! I did mine some 10 years ago, it's still a nice little kit to look at!

Thanks for the confirmation! I'm thinking about a Buffalo to keep the Interceptor company on the shelf, also. ;)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 20, 2011, 07:42:48 AM
I'm thinking about a Buffalo to keep the Interceptor company on the shelf, also. ;)

Nice airplaine too, the Buffalo!!! I have two in stock, from Special Hobby at 1/72 and 1/32 scale...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 20, 2011, 08:00:14 AM
Yep. I have parts of an original-issue 1/48 Tamiya Buffalo in my spares boxes. I don't know what happened to the fuselage and wing or I'd try to restore it........ :-/
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 29, 2011, 07:25:30 PM
The first top color is applied and drying, now on to the landing gear doors and some other little detail items.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6855.jpg)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 29, 2011, 07:26:56 PM
Blurry image but good enough to see this nice shade of green color ;)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 29, 2011, 07:29:49 PM
What colors are you using (Tamiya, Humbrol? References?) for that airplane? That could help me grandly for the H-75...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 29, 2011, 07:45:20 PM
I made a new photo since you posted, No.1. That first one was really, really bad!!!

Draken,

The green is Testors MM FS 34092 "European I Dark Green". The khaki/olive drab I'm planning on using is MM ANA 613 which is equivalent to USAAF O.D. 41. I don't know exactly how it will match up to the green so I'll do some test strips first to see if I'm satisfied. The supposed best equivalent FS number is 34088. I'll do some testing tomorrow evening and let you see the results. I've been all over getting references and the best is here: http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/magazine/2005/09/stuff_eng_dutch_af_colours_02.htm#KNIL 1936-1950 The KNIL references are toward the bottom third of the page.

Scott
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 29, 2011, 08:10:12 PM
Hhhhhmmm... some time ago I have talk with one of my Dutch friend, also members here and maybe some details should be made regard to the real shades. But as quick reference above link could be used ;)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 29, 2011, 08:27:06 PM
That is true. I've read many opinions that give a variety of shades of green/brown for the KNIL aircraft. I used the above link as sort of a baseline to start with and am still open to suggestions on the khaki. The test strips will give me a pretty good idea if the ANA 613 has enough brown to suit the three-view you posted earlier. The medium green looks pretty close after it has had some time to dry.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 29, 2011, 08:34:57 PM
Thank you for your answer, Scott. That will be useful for me. I will follow your progress with your Curtiss...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 29, 2011, 08:38:31 PM
One thing I forgot to mention is that I'm building my model as it would have been after relatively little service in the combat zone. The sun surely faded the paint, especially that khaki color, to a lighter shade after a bit of exposure.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on April 29, 2011, 08:49:59 PM
We always need to refer to the original sources and references- Du Pont color chart for export colors ;)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 30, 2011, 07:10:19 AM
One thing I forgot to mention is that I'm building my model as it would have been after relatively little service in the combat zone. The sun surely faded the paint, especially that khaki color, to a lighter shade after a bit of exposure.

You're right Scott doing so. Climate in East Indies is surely hot and wet.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: samuraj77 on April 30, 2011, 09:20:08 AM
Very nice work...
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 30, 2011, 06:19:52 PM
I've done some more research and head-scratching and come up with a custom mix of faded O.D. and ANA 613 that seems to have just about the right amount of khaki shading in it. It contrasts well enough with the medium green without being too light or too dark. This is a very hard nut to crack since I haven't any color photos of the Interceptor, just the black and white pictures. The various line drawings are very helpful but, again, the colors are somewhat of an educated guess.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Nico Braas on April 30, 2011, 06:40:14 PM
Green colours are always described as 'Old leaf' and 'Young leaf'!
 Undersides were alu paint. Buffalo and Hawk had similar schemes.
In some sources a dark green/dark earth scheme is given, but this is incorrect!'Young leaf' is roughly similar to FS34092 (Humbrol H-149). 'Old leaf' must be FS4079 or Humbrol H-163.
Source: Camouflage en Kentekens op vliegtuigen van de Nederlandse Strijdkrachten by J.H.N. Greuter (ISBN 90 73304 57 1).
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on April 30, 2011, 07:02:56 PM
Bedankt, Nico!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on April 30, 2011, 07:17:00 PM
Indeed! I'll pick up a container of H-149 or FS 34079 and compare it to my "custom mixed" color. I haven't sprayed this color yet so I'll take your advice, Nico!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 01, 2011, 08:41:35 AM
Just a quick update on my Old Leaf color research. Here is a color swatch I brushed together today with all of the different khaki and olive drab colors I could find and a couple of custom mixed variations also.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6861.jpg)
I'm leaning toward a custom mix that isn't on the palette right now. Opinions?
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on May 01, 2011, 03:29:16 PM
Base green look fine as well 34079
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 01, 2011, 04:59:28 PM
My thinking is that the 34079 is just a little too harsh and a small bit of faded O.D. would tone it down a bit. I'll mix some up and spray it on one horizontal stabilizer to see how it looks. None of the photos we've seen show a huge contrast between the colors.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 02, 2011, 08:44:40 AM
Today I formulated and sprayed the color I decided on for the old leaf tone and clearcoated for decal application. While that was drying I attacked the landing gear legs. The kit parts just don't look right and have the scissor link bosses too high on the strut. I dug around in my spares but couldn't find anything that suited me. I had a "eureka!" moment when I remembered the ancient MiG-21 kit in a box. Sure enough, the gear legs turned out to be nearly perfect for the Interceptor with a little extra work. I added a few bits of plastic, scratchbuilt the accordion strut doors, and applied the PE scissor links that come with the kit and this is the result, with an original on the left for comparison:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6873.jpg)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on May 02, 2011, 09:43:57 AM
Sounds excellent, Scott!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on May 02, 2011, 10:33:36 AM
Nice!Excellent idea! :-clap :-clap
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on May 02, 2011, 12:50:11 PM
Well- CW-21 and MiG-21 are both interceptors :))
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 02, 2011, 04:56:14 PM
Well- CW-21 and MiG-21 are both interceptors :))

Funny--that is exactly what I thought! My donor kit is an IMC model that was already missing the canopy. I checked on the auction sites and found that it isn't worth much so I decided to rob the gear legs from it. I had planned on building it just to say I did, maybe now I'll mount it on the clear plastic stand that came with it. Ironically, I acquired both kits in the antique store purchase. Some things are just meant to be!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 04, 2011, 07:43:01 AM
If any of y'all get one of these MPM CW-21 kits be careful with the decal sheet. I practiced on a spare decal and found that it was rather brittle. I clearcoated the entire sheet before using. Also, the national insignia are not totally opaque and the darker color will show through. To fix that issue I simply cut triangles out of white decal sheet and applied these first, then the KNIL markings.
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6871.jpg)

If I get a bit of free time I might get this finished this week.

Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on May 04, 2011, 07:46:00 AM
This is strange question about the opacity... is the real insignia colors opaque? Just curious as well some other air forces did not have opaque national insignia colors. Kit look great with this colors, good adaptation on foliage where it was used.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 04, 2011, 07:53:00 AM
The factory photos of CW-344 show that the orange was opaque. I didn't use the white triangles on the silver wing bottoms as the orange is vivid, but the green shows through quite badly on the fuselage insignia without the backing.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on May 04, 2011, 08:11:32 AM
Ohooo...I like it! :)
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on May 04, 2011, 08:19:00 AM
Great!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 05, 2011, 07:28:15 PM
Here's the finished product:
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6896.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6898.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6895.jpg)
(http://i174.photobucket.com/albums/w117/2AF/IMG_6903.jpg)

This little kit was quite a bit of fun to build. It dawned on me when I was putting the finishing touches on it that I was completing another modeler's project. Belated congratulations to the unknown first owner for his cockpit work.
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: draken35 on May 05, 2011, 07:51:47 PM
I like it!!!
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: No.1 on May 05, 2011, 08:15:10 PM
Congratulation :-clap
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Sall on May 06, 2011, 08:50:02 AM
Wow!Beautiful!! :-clap
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: g-1reaper on May 13, 2011, 09:44:04 AM
Really nice job! Here is my interpretation of this bird:

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10151/P8030044.jpg
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Second Air Force on May 13, 2011, 01:32:08 PM
Really nice job! Here is my interpretation of this bird:

http://albums.modelbrouwers.nl/coppermine/albums/userpics/10151/P8030044.jpg

We got pretty close on the old and new leaf colors, didn't we! I was contemplating the markings of CW-363 for mine--I really like the spinner markings on yours.

I also neglected to finish my sliding canopy with the tinted upper transparency--yours looks perfect.  :-clap

Scott
Title: Re: Curtiss-Wright CW-21B
Post by: Letipapa on June 09, 2011, 07:55:03 PM
Hey Scott, this little bird is a real gem. Delicious :-razz  Great work mate  :-obey :-obey :-obey  :-clap :-clap :-clap :-tri :-wave