LetLetLet ~ Warplanes
Let Let Let - Warplanes => Combat Warplanes => Topic started by: Wingman81 on February 06, 2008, 03:45:52 PM
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I thought it might be useful to open such a thread if someone of our members has a photo in their collection and does not know which plane is on it.
I can say for myself it happens quite often for me :-red
Today i had this one in the mailbox. I have hoped it could be a Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter but im not very sure about it. Also i think its after war. The observer and pilot have some headsets on and the observer has something like an early radio or transmission device if i see it right :-cool
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Maybe some Swedish construction?
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(http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2131/2269239238_bf72766c4d_o.jpg)
Any idea? my guess was Avro504 type.
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I thought it might be useful to open such a thread if someone of our members has a photo in their collection and does not know which plane is on it.
I can say for myself it happens quite often for me :-red
Today i had this one in the mailbox. I have hoped it could be a Sopwith 1 1/2 Strutter but im not very sure about it. Also i think its after war. The observer and pilot have some headsets on and the observer has something like an early radio or transmission device if i see it right :-cool
No problem kilian -sorry Wingman81 :-/, this plane is without error a sopwith
1/2 strutter
I am searching for the second one-Probably a training bi-place sopwith
-to be confirmed-
Cordialement
Bruno
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The second one is an Avro 504 K
http://www.aviation.technomuses.ca/les_collections/phototheque/dig_image.cfm?Lang=f&id=11076
Bruno
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Thanks Bruno!! :-cool Thats a good start for the serial # project. Ill post the information i have in the project thread on aerodrome.
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Can someone tell me if this is a Nieuport 10? The plans i found online didnt help me that much. :-wave
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Hello kilian
This plane is not a Nieuport 10 but a Nieuport 12
You can recognize because of transparent covering on upper wing
The engine was a 110 hp clerget 9 Z-It was a two-seater observer plane with a Lewis machine gun fore the observer/gunner
Some times an other was mounted to the too of upper wing(dont think that is the case here,)-It is a French unit (roundels with sky blue in middle)
The nieuport 12bis was same as N12 butwas fitted with a 130 hp clerget and was recognizable because of its circular cowling
Cordialement
Bruno
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Hi Bruno.
:-wise Thats very interesting. I had asked Kees in your absence and he told me it is a Nie10 because of the rectengular hole where the observer could fire above the propeller circle from front seat. The pale edge you see below the motor is a cut damage in the original photo. For his defense i must say he had a much smaller version of the photo to see. :-green So you think from the motor and upper wing we can rule out a Nie10?
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Very sorry Kilian-I think that Kees , our master in theaerodrome...
is right.
The hole of the Nieuport 12 is larger and recovered with a transparent panel-and the wing struts are inclined
I was mistaken by the fact we cnnot seen the gun through the hole
Sorry kilian
Bruno
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Ok no worries here mate, my problem was i couldnt find a good Nie12 picture where i could see the differences to the Nie10 or better i found some but mostly from the wrong angles :-think
Gruß
Kilian
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Here is a good site for nieuport
Nieuport 12 and 10 could been seen in front face
http://www.hydroretro.net/etudegh/les_nieuports_de_la_guerre.pdf
A+
Bruno
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Merci beaucoup :-ok :-obey
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Well is the next bit of research for my site, trying to find out what these two aircraft are.
They, as you can see are very large enlargements from a reconnaissance print take in 1944 flown by the USAAF 7th Photo group, location is unknown, so that makes the task even harder. Well it gives me something to do in the evenings :))
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Look like the Mistel with Me262 on top.
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Topic moved :-eek
I think what you are looking at is one aircraft but with a very strong shadow, I think it could be a Me 262, but I'm not sure :-roll
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Very hard to tell with the bad resolution. The right looks to me as 2 planes or objects. But i dont think its a He162 Mistel because this had V-wings foward bent or normal wings. This one has V-wings backwards. Maybe another plane type carriers it?
http://www.luftwaffen-projekte.de/lwp/jaeger/archiv/me262_archiv.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/Waffen/Bilderseiten/Me262-R.htm
http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/showthread.php?t=14644
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Thanks for your comments Wingman81, I think the left-hand one could be an Me 262 and the other one maybe an He 111 or even an Me 410?
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/matzos/2-1.jpg)
The white box is the area of the enlargement.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v312/matzos/1-1.jpg)
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Hello everybody. Well, I agree with mfg495 that it is one airplane, but my opinion is that it might be that it is probably some two propeller aircraft.
First I looked at buildings that are in the neighbourhood (fot.1 and 2) and I ruffly draw the sun rays direction (red arrows). If follow the sun rays than we conclude that it is one aircraft (pink line) and it's shadow. That aircraft have two engines, to me looks like almost I can see propellers (green arrows), and maybe it has (just may be) two vertical fins on the tail wing (blue arrows, but not likely). What is sure is that aircraft has a wing that has ends of wings higher than its roots (thus the shadow looks like swept wing, but it is not- it is shadow of the ordinary wing that has high wingtips and lower root of wing). I may be wrong, but this are my conclusions in a hurry.
Is there such a plane in Luftwaffe? :-think
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@Leti.
So you think the right one is more like a larger bomber 2x propeller type machine with two vertical fins that are higher than the main fuselage wings? Could also be possible.
Ill have a look in my books tonight and post a short llist with my suggestions ;o
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Letipapa you should work in photographic intelligence! Great thinking.
An Me 110 could cover the two vertical fins idea and the other might be an Me 410 :-think
The research continues, thanks for all your comments on this. :-ok
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Possibilities:
-Ju 86 Variant -> ruled out for nose position
-He 219 "Uhu" -> ruled out for nightfighter
- Ar 240 -> only 15 produced and only 5 prototype of C type were produced
- Me 110 -> best fitting
I left out some trainers that would have also fitted.
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@Leti.
...with two vertical fins that are higher than the main fuselage wings...
Two vertical fins - it is just a possibility - it looks like on right airplain, and i didn't think that this vertical fins are higher than wings,. but that wings itself a lower near fuselage than at the ends (tips). So It is surely an aircraft which when you look from front side has wings in slight and shallow "v"form. From the front: fuselage and wing roots one level, wingtips (ends) higher level.
And both aircrafts are two engined, maybe the same type. I also think 90% Me 110.
@mfg495 thank You mate. I just used little knowledge of geometry.
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It would be easier if we could determine the length of the plane. Do you recce guys have means to determine it from your photos even from far distances? :))
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Well, there is a lot of roads on big photo. Roads in Germany probably had some standards in that time. We should find how much were roads wide, and than compare it with airplain, then proportionally calculate. If I have photo in greater resolution I could find it. Only need to now how much streets were wide. :-wave
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I have just been told that the airfield is Berlin-Gatow
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I have just been told that the airfield is Berlin-Gatow
That doenst makes it easier :-/. In Gatow was the Luftkriegsschule 2 and Luftkriegsakademie of the Luftwaffe in WWII, which were the most important training facilities for pilots. So it is is likely that there were also many trainer aircrafts around. After the war it was a british operated airfield that took part in the air supply of Berlin. Today there is the Luftwaffenmuseum of the Bundeswehr on this airfield.
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Today there is the Luftwaffenmuseum of the Bundeswehr on this airfield.
See my post
http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=626.0
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I wish to say thank you to all members for their comments on my original post.
I think it shows that it is better to ask the many than to go it on your own.
I did post the same images and question on a specialist Luftwaffe site, some of you may be members, however, I did not get half as many replies and ideas as I did from this team.
Again, thank you for all your help, I may even post some more questions and images in the future.
I'm away on work form tomorrow and the whole of the weekend with no internet access :-/ So I will have to play catch up on all the posts on my return on Monday. :-paper
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mfg495 , maybe You will not read this, but OK -You will read it on Monday. I've just looked photo's once more time, and I noticed that there is a vivid distance between propellers and cabin (fit.1,white lines, red arrows and "d"). The propellers are more out, and cabin is back. If we consider Me 110, than it is not the case, quite opposite (fot.2.) But Me 210 fits perfectly fot.3). Now I put contours of Me 210 (scaled proportionally, fot.4) over airplanes on photo's. It is hard to see strict edges of airplane, so it doesn't fit perfect, especially on the right plane, but it can also be because of angle of photo (????).
Also there is one symptomatic light spot on the rear part of fuselage (close to tail, red arrow, fot.4) on the right aircraft. What that could be? :-think
That's all, I am so curios to hear what will specialist for Luftwaffe say. :-think
:-wave
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Leti you are absolutely right i must have mixed the two types up last night ;) But i guess its more likely to be a Me 410 then. The Me 210 had stability problems and was replaced by the Me410 by Novemer 1943. Since there were still 370 Me210 in the construction phase these were modifyied by a longer fuselage into Me410 to avoid high production cost.
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Hop. hop. hop! That's it! :)
"Since there were still 370 Me210 in the construction phase these were modified by a longer fuselage into Me410 to avoid high production cost"
I think we got it. :) When I was overlaying a contour of Me 210 on a photo, I noticed it was not perfect -like it was short a little bit (especially on right airplain, the left one could still be Me 210). With this information about elongated fuselage, it could really be Me 410
(for which I found some drawings but there was a text that it is a project and , as I was rushing, I thought that this airplain never was build - I tell once again, I'm not an expert - I allways loved aviation, but since last 2 years I am more interested in it).
Good photo, and good information Wigman :-ok :-wave
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Now, this shows how little I know about airplanes.
I bought this photo recently, and I do not know which airplane is that in a background. Obviously Goring was flying it - or not???? :-think
Is that kind of sport airplane or military???? :-think
Shame on me, but that's how things are. This will be good lesson for me I hope I will have from my friends. :) :-wave
P.S: yes, there is also the back of the picture - the 2nd photo.
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Look like Klemm 35.
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Klemm Kl 35
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Thanks chief, thanks mfg459 : :-tri-salut :-obey :-wave
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Any ideas what this russian plane is ? This has interesting camouflage. I lost auction at 25 Euro :-wall
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Soviet bomber SB-2 Katyusha. Overall grey or maybe natural metal with green spot over it. This suggest early stage of war against USSR.
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Soviet bomber SB-2 Katyusha. Overall grey or maybe natural metal with green spot over it. This suggest early stage of war against USSR.
Its good to have your knowledge for the russian planes ;) I would have thought this is a single motor plane. But from the angle this is an illusion.
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...This suggest early stage of war against USSR.
And this soldiers, aren't they German soldiers - aircraft is captured? Yes, it is captured, abandoned probably.
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A bunch of unidentified aircrafts here :-green. This are photo's of photo's from a family encyclopedia from Kingdom of Yugoslavia. The text bellow does not tell what the types are. Translation is:
1. Big modern passanger aeroplane, monoplane (low wing), with pulled up gears during the flight, able to fly 8000km without landing.
2. Two engine passanger aeroplane, high wing.
3. Big passanger aeroplane with 8 engines 800 hp each.
4. Four engine three deck hydroplane in flight.
5. Aeroplane "amphibian" (Serbian word for amphibian) equipped with floats to land on watter and wheels to land on ground.
6. The newest type of helicopter with helices for vertical lift, which are contra rotating.
7.Low wing fighter with a gun shooting through the propeller.
8. Reconnaissance two seat airplane.
9. Seat for the machine-gun operator, that is lowered out and pulled in, due to the larger field of fire.
10. Antiaircraft gun.
11. Air ship (Zeppelin's).
Anybody have any idea what are the types, manufacturers...? :-think :-think
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#1 looks like a Vultee V-1
#7 De-510
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Thanks mate. :-ok Here is the rest:
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Airship is Graf Zeppelin
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Yes, it writes Graf Zeppelin, but which one (model)? :-think
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Probably LZ 127
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Thanks, Kilian. :-wave
I wonder what is that on photo no.4 : four engine three deck hydroplane. Could this "F" on the tail be sign that it is French??? although I believe it could likely be German or USA (maybe). :-think :-think :-think
I wonder, I never saw this airplane before.
Hey fellows: SOS, help, hilfe, aiuto, upomoc...!!!! :))
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I believe it is a Latecoere 521
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Hi mates,
After taking a look at the pictures, this is my list:
1- Vultee V1
2- Potez series 62/65
3 Tupolev ANT Maxim Gorki
4- Latecoere 521, I believe it was christened "Lt. de Vaiseau Paris" when impressed into the Aeronavale.
5- Not a clue :-red
6- An early Sikorski or Kamov helicopter?
7- Dewoitine D-510, may be a prototype or preseries machine.
8- Fairey Fox, used by the belgian A.F. in W.W. II. I'd really like that MPM or some company like that to release a model kit of the Fox Family. They're some of the prettiest biplanes ever.
9- Not a clue, but I guess it may be the lower gun position on a TB-1? Even it could be the one on the Junkers R-42? :-think
10- Not a single clue
11- It says Graf Zeppelin, could be?
Well, I guess that's all, mates.
Take care,
Javier
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Ha, lot of information for me. Thanks Javier :-ok :-wave
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Could any of you help with this images?
(http://www.postimage.org/gx1AOnQJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1AOnQJ) (http://www.postimage.org/aV1OQkA0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1OQkA0) (http://www.postimage.org/aV1OQpzi.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1OQpzi)
(http://www.postimage.org/Pq1Q0ug0.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1Q0ug0) (http://www.postimage.org/Pq1Q0wL9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1Q0wL9) (http://www.postimage.org/aV1OQzxS.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1OQzxS)
(http://www.postimage.org/Pq1Q0EeA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1Q0EeA) (http://www.postimage.org/Pq1Q0GJJ.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1Q0GJJ) (http://www.postimage.org/Pq1Q0VHA.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=Pq1Q0VHA)
(http://www.postimage.org/gx1AOMN9.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=gx1AOMN9)
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I have seen the plane on photo 1 before........i think its french but i cant tell.. Dont have my books here :(
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Maybe G.3?
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I think it is Caudron Biplane from 1912, like on this photo (compare it with Your first photo - it is same tipe of aircraft, if not the same). Caoudron G3 has lower wing shorter and thus some diagonal struts, which this one on photos doesn't.
Also it is the same aircraft on third photo (all first three photos are from yhe same place) :) :-wave
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On the photo 5, could this two man be Gaston(up,working on engine) and Rene Caudron (down, handing him a tool)?
I blew up heads and added here another photo with them, also near the engine (Rene is on the left, Gaston right). I blew up their heads from this photo too. I believe this are same two people, so the aircraft could be one of early Caudrons, although the position of helix (behind an engine :-eek) is very strange, so, I am not sure.
:) :-wave
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Good point!
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Another one :))
(http://www.postimage.org/aV1UPx40.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1UPx40)
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When I look at the "ski" between the wheels, a rounded fin and rudder, I would say it is Avro 504 K. :-think
:-wave
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Hi,
I think it's a He 111 and its shadow resulting of a very low sun on the horizon. It should be interesting to know the time when this photo was shot. I think in the evening...
Cheers,
Jicehem
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He111? Where?
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He111? Where?
Hi mate,
He 111 here : http://www.letletlet-warplanes.com/forum/index.php?topic=760.0
Cheers,
Jicehem
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Well is the next bit of research for my site, trying to find out what these two aircraft are.
They, as you can see are very large enlargements from a reconnaissance print take in 1944 flown by the USAAF 7th Photo group, location is unknown, so that makes the task even harder. Well it gives me something to do in the evenings :))
This is a He 111 with the shape of its shadow due to the sun very low on the horizon...
Jicehem
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Ooopppsss- sorry, I have seen this later.
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Hy everybody :-wave
Jicehem, are You sure? :-think To me it looks that engines on photo are longer than nose, and He-111 has a nose going more far in front of engines, that is in fact quite opposite.
What do You say? :-think :) :-wave
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Is this a Fw44?
I think the struts are strange. Usually they would come from the middle of the fuselage and the strong struts going into the bottom wing would be only thinner cables.
Might that be a diffrent version I dont know? or a modification for flying in coastal areas with stronger winds?
I hope to get a larger scan of this soon.
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I think it could be a Heinkel-72.
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Any idea about this:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp327/recenzije/Arhiva/img358.jpg)
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hmmm... :-think Considering the tail construction, shape of fuselage and wheels, centrally positioned push engine, looks like Supermarine Walrus...
Only the missing closed cockpit and the front gunners' gondola pushed back from the stem puts doubts... Is this some Walruses' predecessor?
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A friend Mark from UK said:
This is a Fokker B.1 amphibian not a Vickers Viking. I don’t know where the photo was taken. I doubt it was outside the Rolls-Royce plant as the B.1 used a Napier Lion engine which can be seen in the photo.
Will see, too strange for me.
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Another one :))
(http://www.postimage.org/aV1UPx40.jpg) (http://www.postimage.org/image.php?v=aV1UPx40)
Ah that's a funny picture! It shows an AVRO 504K allright, when it was pulled out of service with the Netherlands Indies Air Corps... On the other side of the fuselage stood "lach maar, ook jij zult oud worden" (laugh, you'll grow older too)
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I wonder did the pilot really flew with mask show on this image ;)
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New one:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp327/recenzije/Arhiva/Casablanca.jpg)
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New one:
(http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp327/recenzije/Arhiva/Casablanca.jpg)
Looks every bit a He.46, surrounded by a Breda 20mm gun, several german SC bombs and variable pitch propellers... Now, when it comes to markings, you can kill me. I'd saiy british trophy of war. But a He-46 in Africa? Another mistery.