Me-109 which one????

[Nico Braas]

This is a much published photo of a Messerschmitt Me-109 captured by US forces and transported to the USA.
Unfortunately it is in various books described as being a Me-109G-6, a Me-109G-14AS and a Me-109K-4.
Can anyone out there shed some light on this?

[Second Air Force]

Nico,

Have you studied this link?: http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/Aircraft%20-%20German/FE%200123-Me109/0123.htm It does, indeed have the fuselage fairing that could indicate a G-10. However, the same research organization shows it to have been a K-4 here: http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/FE%20NUMBERS/More%20Numbers.htm

The U.S. "camouflage" on the captured machines makes photo identification rather difficult, doesn't it?

I'll keep looking from this side.
Scott

[Second Air Force]

I'm still looking into this, but I believe now that T2-123 is a G-10. The loop antenna is one fuselage segment too far forward for a K. I blew up the left-side photo in the above link but didn't find any distinguishing features.

[Nico Braas]

Firstt link says is is a G-10; second link it is a G-10/K4 hybrid.
Maybe late Heinz Nowarra was right after all when he stated it was a K-4!!

[Jicehem]

Hi mates  

This plane is a genuine Bf 109 G-10/U4 from Wiener-Neustädter Flugzeugbau (WNF) ; its WNr has been lost but it was in the 610000 series. Its ultimate fate is inknown.
I have to say that there has been no Bf 109G/K hybrids due to the the fact that although apparently similar to the Bf 109 G-10, the K-4 was a different plane : different cockpit, different fittings, different accessories layout, etc.
Two other G-10 from WNF were captured with the references T2-122 (WNr 610xxx. When restored no identification plate has not been but some Nummersachen indicating it's a G-10/U4) and FE-124 (WNr 610937) from a production batch of about 370 produced between December 1944 and January 1945.

Cheers,

Jicehem  

[Second Air Force]

Sadly, they may have scrapped T2-123 according to what I've read. That seems to make some sense as the Air Force Museum scrapped some rare airplanes when they moved to the new museum location, including the YB-36 and YB-52. Maybe it's lurking in some warehouse..........what a find that would be!

Scott

[Jicehem]

Nico,

Have you studied this link?: http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/Aircraft%20-%20German/FE%200123-Me109/0123.htm It does, indeed have the fuselage fairing that could indicate a G-10. However, the same research organization shows it to have been a K-4 here: http://www.indianamilitary.org/FreemanAAF/FE%20NUMBERS/More%20Numbers.htm
Scott

Hi mates,

The first link says : "The two data plates are an indication that the aircraft was remanufactured by converting a reclaimed fuselage of an older model." That's definitely wrong. On G-10s (as per other types) there were several "id. plates" on a plane. One of the two indicates, on this particular plane, the Sachnummer and the fuselage own WNr, and the second one the Werknummer of the complete plane and its manufacturer. We don't know the reason why the identification of the fuselage was located here onto the fuselage of the G-10s...

The second link says : "BF-109K-4, Germany, FE-123, T2-123, shipped to USA".
Look at the photo and you will see this FE-123 has two of the characteristics of a WNF's Bf 109 G-10/U4 : gonio antenna on the forward position (one section back on the K-4) and the non retractable tailwheel.



On the other side (photo in first link) we see the refueling hatch in back location (repositionned one fuselage section forward on the K-4)

And here are some photos of id. plates for fuselages found on different planes :
Bf 110 :


Do 217 :


He 177 :


Ju 188 :


Cheers,

Jicehem

[No.1]

Excellent study mate

[Nico Braas]

I have one further very intrigueing question: has someone ever seen photographs of the Messerschmitt Me-109H high-altitude version? It was built in small numbers only for operational testing but in general it was regarded as a failure, although it could reacht an altitude of more than 14,500 m!
Images of this rare type would be very welcome!!

[Second Air Force]

I really enjoy this thread! Research is one of my favorite pasttimes and having y'all share all your research is great.

When I found those two links, from the same organization, with conflicting information I knew the truth would be forthcoming here on LLL. There were a lot of mistakes on the records when the U.S. brought all this war materiel back from Europe and the misidentification has been carried forward over time.

Nico, I've been looking for "H" photos also. If I find any you'll be the first to know.

[Jicehem]

I have one further very intrigueing question: has someone ever seen photographs of the Messerschmitt Me-109H high-altitude version? It was built in small numbers only for operational testing but in general it was regarded as a failure, although it could reacht an altitude of more than 14,500 m!
Images of this rare type would be very welcome!!

Hi mates, 

I've never seen photos of the Bf 109 H, but I found, many years ago good description (with WNr 16281, an ex-G-5 and Skz SP+EB) within flight reports and drawings of the Bf 109 H V1. All that material permitted me to build a kit of this particular plane fitted with a DB 628, a two stage-compressed DB 605 A :








It's true the series Bf 109 H-2/H-3 was never built but the aircraft manual has been written... This model was built on the Erla-Leipzig Bf 109 K-4 fuselage fitted with a DB 605 E (a high altitude DB 605 D with a different demultiplication ratio) and the lengthened wing span (11,92 m  against 9,92 m). I made a profile after drawings found at Daimler-Benz in Stuttgart and MBB :


I never found any information about this supposed little batch of Bf 109 H-0 built in France...

Cheers,

Jicehem 

[No.1]

Build is great and sad that there is no photo evidence of the type

[Jicehem]

Build is great and sad that there is no photo evidence of the type

Maybe the photos were destroyed as this prototype and others (Bf 109 H V54 and V55) during the Allied air raid on Stuttgart-Untertürkheim in July 1944...
All those prototypes were flight-tested at Daimler-Benz.

Jicehem

[Second Air Force]

That's beautiful, Jicehem.

The Bf-109 and offspring are simply remarkable. An amazing family of airplanes that went from roughly 600 horsepower to over 2000 horsepower but still able to do so within the basic original airframe parameters.

[Jicehem]

I really enjoy this thread! Research is one of my favorite pasttimes and having y'all share all your research is great.

Hi mates, 

Other drawings resulting from my research :

Daimler-benz DB 628 A, two superchargers, the low pressure one being placed on the nose of the engine, numbered 5 on the drawing. No 12 is the intercooler) :


 
Bf 109 H V50 with DB 605 A in place of DB 628 A :


Three-view drawing of the Bf 109 V 50 with standard lengthened Bf 109 G wings :


Bf 109 H V54 :


Bf 109 H V55 with extra fuselage section (not retained for production) :


Standard Bf 109 H-2/H-3. Bf 109 H-2 had MW 50, Bf 109 H-2/R2 had both MW 50 and GM-1 and Bf 109 H-3 was a recce version with either an Rb 50/30 or an Rb 75/30 camera :


Three-view drawing of Bf 109 H-2 (made from partial manual found at Heinkel !) :


Here is a 1940's project of aerodynamics improvment of the Bf 109 E :


Cheers,

Jicehem