Author Topic: Very first dive bomber  (Read 13400 times)

Offline No.1

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Very first dive bomber
« on: March 04, 2008, 07:34:29 PM »
Dive bombing was one of the most precision way to deliver war load on the target and it wide use was in the WW2. But the roots of this method was first time made by US aviator Leonard W. Bonney during the Mexican Civil War 1913-1915. Bonney was engaged there as scout pilot and he is searching for the enemy troops in the Moisant airplane. During this mission he has carried dynamite bombs rigged by Mexican engineers and they are released by firing of cartages. Description of his attack was:

"Bonney drops his bombs himself at the end of a dive, before leveling out, and employs no sighting device"
["Drop Dropping with Carranza", Jones, E.L., Aeronautics, London, Vol. IX, December 1., 1915]

Is there any info, images or description of this very first world dive bomber?

Offline mfg495

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #1 on: March 04, 2008, 09:29:42 PM »

LEONARD WARDEN BONNEY
from Who's Who in American Aeronautics, 1928

Airplane Constructor: born, Wellington, Ohio, Dec. 4, 1885; attended Oberlin College.
Aeronautical Activities and War Service: 1910 and 1911, flew for Wright Bros., Simms Field, Dayton, Ohio;
1912, Sloan Airplane Co., Mineola Field, Instructor;
1913, test pilot Amas Airplane Co., Washington, D. C.;
1914 to 1915, military aviator Mexican Government under Gen. Carranza, bomb dropping and observation Tampico, Vera Cruz, Mexico City;
late 1915 and early 1916, pilot and instructor General Aircraft, Detroit, Mich.;
1916 to 1917, Army instructor at Garden City Field, L. I., and naval instructor at Smith's Point, L. I.;
1918, General Mgr. Alexandria Aircraft Corp.; Alexandria, Va.; since 1925 constructing bird wing type monoplane with folding wings at Garden Ciry, L. I.
Flying Rating: May 1910, first solo flight; F. A. I., License No. 47, Air Club of America
Present Occupation: Experimental work. Address: 127 Jamaica Ave., Flushing, L. I, N. Y.


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Offline No.1

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #2 on: March 04, 2008, 10:01:07 PM »
That's really surprise- I thought that I will get no reply but this is great  :-wave Thank you mate  :-tri Any idea about airplane mentioned in the text  :-think

samuraj77

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Letipapa

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #4 on: March 06, 2008, 12:24:51 AM »
Very interesting links Samuraj77 :-clap :-clap :-clap. A man can allways learn something from rich aviation history. :)) :-wave
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 12:59:57 AM by Letipapa »

Offline No.1

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #5 on: March 06, 2008, 06:09:37 AM »
Early history is most interesting :)

Letipapa

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #6 on: March 07, 2008, 02:21:16 AM »
Yes indeed. So I investigated a little about the possible airplain that Bonney was flying in Mexico. I find that it was Moisant type, and on one source that it was Moisant biplane pusher type airplain. Then I investigated Moisant.

1.) Moisant:

John B.Moisant founded togaether with his brother Alfred "Fred" Moisant(whole family was connected with early flying history)a Moisant Company:

"In the year 1911 there existed in New York an incorporated company, the Moisant International Aviators, A.J. Moisant, President, A. E. Wupperman, Secretary. Its purpose was the building of flying machines and the staging of aviation exhibitions...     ...In May, 1911, the Moisant Aviation School had one flying airplane and one instructor, Mr. Houpert."

also:
"...also a large factory for constructing monoplanes was located near. I was employed as superintendent in this factory, building monoplanes of the Bleriot type equipped with Gnome motors."

than, November 1911:
"The Moisant International Aviators had previously participated in an air meet in Mexico City early in 1911). They met with but indifferent success and considerable trouble all through the Latin-American countries, especially in Mexico, where they encountered real danger from the revolutionists. The Mexican revolution involved one great adventure that can be deemed of historic importance, as the first recognition of the airplane's adaptability for war service. Certain of the Mexican outlaws made overtures to secure the Moisant equipment and the services of the men to drop explosive bombs upon the Federal forces. The reply of Miss Moisant and her companions was that they were not in Mexico for that purpose; that war was not their trade. The insurgent forces began closing in on them in a hostile manner at Torreon, having burned bridges and rendered the railroad impassable for sixty miles outside that city besides instigating the burning of the Moisant grand stand at the aviation field. The issue was joined at once. It was a clear case of science versus force. The story is essentially true to this point, but wait, the tale becomes somewhat clouded.

The Moisant party held a hurried consultation and in the early dawn started their monoplanes and winged their way out of the beleaguered city of Torreon to the railway sixty miles away, where they found facilities to enable them to safely continue their journey to the United States. (In fact, the Moisant group waited almost two weeks and the government troops cleared up the tracks so their train continued its journey to Laredo, Texas. Winging their way out is certainly more dramatic). Not long after this the Moisant company sold five monoplanes to the Mexican government. The foiling of their plans rankled for sometime in the minds of the rebels. Threats were made that Miss Moisant would be kidnapped for ransom."

After company was named Hempstead Plains Aviation Company - article
in "AERO", May 12, 1912:
"...at the present time there are four Moisant monoplanes, a Moisant biplane and the new Gallaudet monoplane at Hempstead..."
 
Alfred Moisant's Hempstead Plains Aviation Company and his attempt to manufacture airplanes came to an end by January 1914.


Then I investigated Bonney's Mexican years:

2.) Bonney:

"Unofficial credit for being the "father of divebombing" must go to American soldier of fortune Leonard Warden Bonney who, flying a Moisant pusher biplane for Mexican Gen. Carranza's government, carried out bombing attacks at Tampico and Vera Cruz against revolutionaries in the Civil War of 1913-15. Taught by the Wright Brothers to fly, Bonney hurled small bombs with shotgun shell detonators developed by Mexican mining engineers in shallow diving attacks. Diving from about 1500-ft, Bonney would aim the Moisant directly at the target without benefit of any sighting mechanism. Dropping the bombs just as he pulled out of his dive, it was not uncommon for the fearless airman to score several direct hits that sent the revolutionaries scurrying and Bonney back to base with dozens of bullet holes testifying to his adventures. Professing to have hit the target about 50% of the time, Bonney became an early proponent of dive-bombing while a Naval flight instructor during WWI."  - we know that it was Moisant, but what type??? :-think :-think :-think

than:
"...Obregon’s Division del Noroesta having 2 Glenn Martin pusher biplanes..."
"...in May of 1913, Didier Masson, an American pilot of French parentage, together with his English mechanic, Tomas Dean, both volunteers in the Division de Noroeste flew their Curtiss biplane in attacks against both the federal gunboat Guerrero in Guaymas Bay, Sonora, and enemy positions in the interior."

"Foreigners who flew with Obregon’s nascent air force included the above-mentioned Didier Masson, Charles F. Niles, W. Leonard Bonney, and Lawrence Brown, all of whom were Americans. A Romanian aviator, George Pufflea, completed the foreign contingent. Niles did much valuable observation work for the carranzista army in the aerial campaigns over Campeche and Yucatan. Bonney, who replaced Niles as chief of the air division, served well in the battle of El Ebano in 1915, on one occasion blowing up a troop train with a dynamite bomb.

Conclusion: Moisant had (produced? :-think) biplane, but what type it was - their original or maybe Curtiss or Wright type??? :-think

We Know that Bonney flew Moisant that is for sure. Was it monoplain (Mexican government bought 5 of them) or biplane. My opinion is that if it was biplane than it was either Glenn Martin pusher biplane or Curtis's type biplane which both were used in Oregon's Division de Nor'easter in which Bonny also was flying (He flew together with Didier Masson who flew on Curtiss biplane, so maybe that this Curtiss is (just maybe) in fact a Moisant produced Curtiss type biplane??? :-think :-think :-think This is just suggestion, because I couldn't find any information of Moisant biplane, except all aluminium one that was experimental and was not pusher (see photo.)

Actually I didn't find an answer. The answer is in discovering of Moisant biplane pusher, its exact name and  its photo. :-wave
« Last Edit: March 07, 2008, 02:36:58 AM by Letipapa »

Offline No.1

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #7 on: March 07, 2008, 10:46:36 AM »
Very interesting- I did not expect that airplane could be found at all. Did any have any connection with somebody in Mexico? maybe they have something in their archive?

Offline mfg495

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #8 on: March 08, 2008, 04:49:10 PM »
Great post Letipapa  :-ok thanks

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Offline Leo

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #9 on: March 08, 2008, 06:05:56 PM »
 :-wise
I used to teach American History and am familiar with American mercenaries fighting in Mexico.  I always thought the bombing attacks were carried out in Curtiss airplanes which were biplalnes.  That monoplane pictured doesn't appear, to me, to have been sturdy enough to take the strain of dive bombing.

GREAT POST-tHANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Leo

Offline No.1

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #10 on: March 08, 2008, 06:07:35 PM »
Leo- can you see the images in this post?

Letipapa

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2008, 02:13:51 AM »
Leo, and all, I believe that Bonney's aircraft was Moisant pusher biplane which I suppose was in fact just Moisant produced Curtis pusher biplane type or maybe Glenn Martin pusher biplane type, but I need proof- a photo, or an original written document, or similar. The picture I posted at the end is different airplane a Moisant whole aluminium biplane, but it is not pusher it is tractor. (I just posted photo of only Moisant biplane I could find). Here is another photo of it, from front side - tractor engine is clearly seen.
This all means that we still do not now how the airplane looked. We need more investigation about Moisant produced biplane pushers. Do such a photo exists??? :-think :-think :-think

No1, idea to consult somebody in Mexico looks reasonable.
 :-wave
« Last Edit: March 10, 2008, 02:27:38 AM by Letipapa »

Letipapa

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2008, 02:51:57 AM »
Here is an advertising for Moisant flying school (I would say that this is Curtis. probably Moisant had Curtis biplanes in flying school. He also had an industry of airplanes, together with his brother - it is not unreasonable that they could start produce Curtis type pusher biplanes) , and here is his sister Matilde Moisant beside Moisant Belriot XI type monoplane (photo 2, also airplane is on photo 3 & 4), which Moisant factory produced. Five of these were sold to Mexico.

But, pushers, pushers..... :-think :-think :-think

Offline Leo

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #13 on: March 10, 2008, 02:42:20 PM »
 :-wise
Number 1-I can see the images posted here.  They were what made me question the ruggedness and ability of the Moisant to dive bomb.  I will look and see what if any pictures I can find concerning the attacks in Mexico.
Leo

Offline No.1

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Re: Very first dive bomber
« Reply #14 on: March 10, 2008, 02:52:45 PM »
All right- thank you ;)